Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Colin Parkinson]

If Wiki is to be believed and in this case I do, the missiles at the time kind of sucked and the Phantom found the need to be gun armed to achieve kills in the air battles over Vietnam.

McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kirkhill]

With the West in general the issue isn't the how, it's the 'why' ...

“Those who have a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'.” Viktor E. Frankl

I read his book years ago when I live in the CR, changed my thinking and outlook on a number of things. Thanks for reminding me about this, I'm going to find the book in my library and re-read it 30yrs later.

Thanks to both of you for a reference to a book of which I had never heard previously.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't think anyone made the claim that the Avro Arrow was a 'fighter'; it was designed and intended to be an interceptor of approaching Soviet bombers. It was intended to be a lawn dart. If it had hard points in the design (and don't doubt that it would have), I suspect some of them would have been wet, because the proposed 'combat' range was only about 300 miles.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Thanks to both of you for a reference to a book of which I had never heard previously.

Anyone living in Alberta or BC should keep it handy

 

[KevinB]

If Wiki is to be believed and in this case I do, the missiles at the time kind of sucked and the Phantom found the need to be gun armed to achieve kills in the air battles over Vietnam.

McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

100%
Most of the radar missiles of the time were designed for the interceptor role -- shooting down Bear's, then TU-16 and TU-22's and while the TU-22 was fast - it wasn't maneuverable . Those early radar missiles like the AIM-4 Falcon where not very maneuverable, and required a constant radar lock within a fairly small AOA - so fighters simply maneuvered out of the envelope. The Falcon was a dual seeker - both IR and Radar but in 54 launches in Vietnam only got 5 kills during Rolling Thunder protecting B-52 strikes where the Mig's seemed to be focused on the B-52's
*
The early Sidewinders available in Vietnam where tail trackers only -- so you needed to get a jump on the target and keep it lined up for it to lock -- even then the hit rate was pretty abysmal due to the G load as the Mig's could juke it.

So guns came back to Air to Air -


There is a great excerpt on Wiki on the Falcon AIM-4 Falcon - Wikipedia
Col Robin Old's is quite a character - having read a few books about him -- his rewiring his Phantoms for the Sidewinder was one of his minor clashes with authority in the USAF-- he had once threatened to shoot down the tanker he was trying to tank from - as most of his canopy had been shot away and he had taken 15min to lite a cigar - and the crew didn't want to tank him with the lit cigar - -- then eventually agreed to fill him up, after he encouraged them with the threats.