Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[MilEME09]

I agree entirely on the messaging and morale issues.

I wonder though, if in the rush of things, somebody understood what they think they heard: "pay will increase 20%" when what was meant was "payroll will increase 20%".

Or maybe somebody reads this form and realized what we are all saying that a blanket pay raise without addressing the QOL and affordability issues for CAF members is just a bandaid solution that will lead us right back to needing a pay raise in 10 years. We gotta treat the disease not symptoms

 

[Kirkhill]

Or maybe somebody reads this form and realized what we are all saying that a blanket pay raise without addressing the QOL and affordability issues for CAF members is just a bandaid solution that will lead us right back to needing a pay raise in 10 years. We gotta treat the disease not symptoms

All of which boils down to terms of service, which first requires the government to determine what kind of service they are going to ask for, and why.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I dont Reddit but this was sent to me

Lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/s/DxHqC9UjF7

CANFORGEN 123/25 CMP 005/25 211400Z JUN 25 INTRODUCTION OF THE CANADIAN FORCES PAY DIFFERENTIAL (CFPD) PROGRAM UNCLASSIFIED // OPERATIONALLY INCOHERENT

1. BZ TO ALL CAF MEMBERS ON THE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED 20% PAY INCREASE, WHICH IS ENTIRELY SEPARATE FROM, YET SOMEHOW DEPENDENT UPON, THE NEWLY MANDATED CANADIAN FORCES PAY DIFFERENTIAL (CFPD) PROGRAM.
2. EFFECTIVE RETROACTIVELY TO NEXT WEEK, CFPD WILL PROVIDE A REGIONALLY CALCULATED, RANK-INFLUENCED, TIME-ZONE-ADJUSTED, OPERATIONALLY DERIVED, INCOME-INDEPENDENT PAY DIFFERENTIAL FOR ELIGIBLE CAF MEMBERS BASED ON AN EQUATION NOBODY FULLY UNDERSTANDS.
3. ELIGIBILITY IS AUTOMATIC FOR ALL REG F PERS EXCEPT THOSE POSTED TO LOCATIONS WITHIN 3.8KM OF A COSTCO, WHO MUST APPLY THROUGH FORM DND 3456-R(PLAID), AVAILABLE ONLY IN PAPER FORMAT AT SELECT BUILDINGS ON MONDAYS FROM 0930-0945.
4. THE CFPD WILL BE CALCULATED USING THE FOLLOWING FORMULA:
   
   CFPD = (R x L x TQ / [π x 2]) + (HousingIndex² – NumberOfMessDuesMissed) ÷ ProximityToMooseJaw × OpTempoMultiplier
   
   WHERE:
   
   • R = RANK COEFFICIENT (BASED ON UNPUBLISHED VICE-CHIEF FEELINGS)
   • L = LOCATION INDEX (SEE ANNEX A, CLASSIFIED)
   • TQ = TRADE QUALIFICATION POINTS (MAX 3.5, UNLESS YOU’RE NAVY)
   • HOUSINGINDEX = WHATEVER CFHD SAYS IT IS, WE GUESS
   • OPTEMPOMULTIPLIER = CURRENTLY SET TO “MAYBE”
5. CFPD WILL BE PAID BI-WEEKLY, MONTHLY, OR WHENEVER JPA REMEMBERS TO PROCESS IT. MEMBERS WILL RECEIVE A DETAILED BREAKDOWN IN THEIR PAY STATEMENT IN A FONT TOO SMALL TO READ.
6. MEMBERS CURRENTLY RECEIVING CFHD, PLD, ISOLATION PAY, DANGER PAY, OR THE “SORRY WE MESSED UP YOUR MOVE AGAIN” ALLOWANCE MAY SEE THEIR CFPD OFFSET BY AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION, AS PER THE LAWS OF FINANCIAL PHYSICS.
7. TO ENSURE EQUITY, MEMBERS MAY ONLY RECEIVE THE CFPD WHILE FACING TRUE NORTH AT 0600L ON PAYDAY AND MUST MAINTAIN POSITIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT CENTRALIZED ADMIN.
8. COMPLAINTS OR INQUIRIES SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, WHO WILL FORWARD THEM TO A CENTRALIZED INBOX LOCATED IN A LOCKED FILING CABINET IN A DISUSED LAVATORY SIGNED “BEWARE OF LEOPARDS”.
9. CFPD IS A TEMPORARY MEASURE THAT WILL REMAIN IN PLACE UNTIL REPLACED BY THE COMPREHENSIVE ALLOWANCE STREAMLINING STRUCTURE (CASS), WHICH IS SCHEDULED TO BE LAUNCHED NO EARLIER THAN NEVER.
10. YOU'RE WELCOME.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I agree entirely on the messaging and morale issues.

I wonder though, if in the rush of things, somebody understood what they think they heard: "pay will increase 20%" when what was meant was "payroll will increase 20%".

No, he was pretty clear. It was since updated to '20% increease in total compensation package', which is a bit more weasely, but would include things like health benefits, PLD etc, but is still mostly your base salary.

Ottawa considering ’combination of approaches’ to 20% military pay hike

This while just killing PLD, screwing some specialty trades out of spec pay again, and other things. Similarly when you crunch the numbers it's impossible to argue that even with changes injured veterans aren't worse off with the New Veteran era changes to medical pensions.

I would agree that there was a misunderstanding, but it wasn't on what was said. Some staffer that probably has zero idea what they are talking about probably wrote that without talking to anyone who has a clue.

I wish I could find the YouTube video of it to see if they caught the face of an EA or someone in uniform in the background. If they didn't flinch, they should be blacklisted from friendly poker games forever lol.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I dont Reddit but this was sent to me

Lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/s/DxHqC9UjF7

That's quality; I am just waiting to see the next version of 'smoking in the wardroom' from this. People are going to be so salty when the actual announcement drops that may change the local water tables from being fresh water.

I thought this meme summed it up well (aside from the TBS to TSB typo);

 

[Kirkhill]

No, he was pretty clear. It was since updated to '20% increease in total compensation package', which is a bit more weasely, but would include things like health benefits, PLD etc, but is still mostly your base salary.

Ottawa considering ’combination of approaches’ to 20% military pay hike

This while just killing PLD, screwing some specialty trades out of spec pay again, and other things. Similarly when you crunch the numbers it's impossible to argue that even with changes injured veterans aren't worse off with the New Veteran era changes to medical pensions.

I would agree that there was a misunderstanding, but it wasn't on what was said. Some staffer that probably has zero idea what they are talking about probably wrote that without talking to anyone who has a clue.

I wish I could find the YouTube video of it to see if they caught the face of an EA or someone in uniform in the background. If they didn't flinch, they should be blacklisted from friendly poker games forever lol.

I'm sure that he was clear. I heard him and understood him exactly the same way that you and everybody else did.

I am wondering if a disconnect might not have happened between Carney's mouth and the Minister's ear. Carney seems to be taking centralization to its logical conclusion. The Government is the Party, the Party is the PMO, the PMO is the PM.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No, he was pretty clear. It was since updated to '20% increease in total compensation package', which is a bit more weasely, but would include things like health benefits, PLD etc, but is still mostly your base salary.

Ottawa considering ’combination of approaches’ to 20% military pay hike

This while just killing PLD, screwing some specialty trades out of spec pay again, and other things. Similarly when you crunch the numbers it's impossible to argue that even with changes injured veterans aren't worse off with the New Veteran era changes to medical pensions.

I would agree that there was a misunderstanding, but it wasn't on what was said. Some staffer that probably has zero idea what they are talking about probably wrote that without talking to anyone who has a clue.

I wish I could find the YouTube video of it to see if they caught the face of an EA or someone in uniform in the background. If they didn't flinch, they should be blacklisted from friendly poker games forever lol.

Who lost spec pay ?

I agree he was pretty clear and unambiguous in his 20% statement.

 

[dapaterson]

That's quality; I am just waiting to see the next version of 'smoking in the wardroom' from this. People are going to be so salty when the actual announcement drops that may change the local water tables from being fresh water.

I thought this meme summed it up well (aside from the TBS to TSB typo);

View attachment 94204

The typo makes it more real...

 

[PrairieFella]

Who lost spec pay ?

I agree he was pretty clear and unambiguous in his 20% statement.

Ill forgive the MND if we end up getting 10% and some of the thousands of tanks and armoured vehicles NATO is committing to buy according to Rutte today haha

 

[Jarnhamar]

Ill forgive the MND if we end up getting 10%

10% for the CAF and public service members? Yeah sure.

 

[PrairieFella]

10% for the CAF and public service members? Yeah sure.

I said nothing about the PS?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I said nothing about the PS?

You forgot them. The government isn't going to drop a 10% pay increase to the CAF and not have to follow suite with the public service.

 

[Remius]

You forgot them. The government isn't going to drop a 10% pay increase to the CAF and not have to follow suite with the public service.

It’s typically the other way around.

Collective bargaining for the PS is already under way. There is nothing linked to the caf increase being proposed or asked for.

 

[dapaterson]

You forgot them. The government isn't going to drop a 10% pay increase to the CAF and not have to follow suite with the public service.

In the current environment that is extremely unlikely. Outside of DND the PS is facing cuts, not material growth in payroll.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It’s typically the other way around.

Collective bargaining for the PS is already under way. There is nothing linked to the caf increase being proposed or asked for.

The CAF technicqlly got a separate pay increase in 2017 at 6.34%. The Canadian Public Service still received a pay increase too, though it wasn't a fixed rate across the board.

I don't see a CAF only pay increase happening.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Who lost spec pay ?

I agree he was pretty clear and unambiguous in his 20% statement.

No one lost it, but some trades like the firefighters continue to not qualify for it, which is a bit baffling, especially as they'd still make less then their DND civilian FF equivalents doing the same job (while working less hours without having to deploy) even if they were spec 2. The spec pay system is generally obscure and mysterious so probably the worst way you can set up a system to have extra pay increments for people with specialized training. That's why their attrition rate is pretty high and lot of people are going to city, base or airport firehalls once they are qualified.

He definitely didn't stutter, so will see what happens. Will get worse the longer they dilly dally though.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Ill forgive the MND if we end up getting 10% and some of the thousands of tanks and armoured vehicles NATO is committing to buy according to Rutte today haha

Too bad that all the people that would be doing the buying and maintaining have been steadily shrunk through attrition and downsizing over the last decade while procurement process has increased. Our effective capacity is already running full throttle, so only way to buy some new stuff is to triage priorities and means we won't be doing something else we need to do.

 

[Remius]

The CAF technicqlly got a separate pay increase in 2017 at 6.34%. The Canadian Public Service still received a pay increase too, though it wasn't a fixed rate across the board.

I don't see a CAF only pay increase happening.

Collective Barganing is scheduled. And set.
Every three years or so pay is discussed and negotiated. The CAF has nothing to do with it.

 

[PrairieFella]

Too bad that all the people that would be doing the buying and maintaining have been steadily shrunk through attrition and downsizing over the last decade while procurement process has increased. Our effective capacity is already running full throttle, so only way to buy some new stuff is to triage priorities and means we won't be doing something else we need to do.

Here's to hoping. The army needs some major love these days.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Collective Barganing is scheduled. And set.
Every three years or so pay is discussed and negotiated. The CAF has nothing to do with it.

Maybe the PS gets a pay increase and we'll be told to wait out since ours is "in the works".