KevinB
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Bingo
Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC
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KevinB
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Agreed. I’m not saying it will happen, but just offering a potential solution from my perspective to get Canada up to an honest 3.5%, but also use funds from that to spring board industry in Canada to great more wealth for Canada.
Frankly I’d also be looking for international partners to come and make manufacturing facilities inside Canada to be able to do ‘farm to table’ defense production.
Canada unlike most other countries is well positioned for that sort of vertical integration.
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The proposal for the Province of The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area ( GTHA ) has a thread.
A Province of GTHA would have a greater population than the resized Province of Ontario. ( According to 2011 population statistics. )
Would that be good for Northern Ontario? Not for me to say.
But, I did read this,
Michael Gravelle, the Minister of Northern Development and Mines.
That was reported back in 2010, so, perhaps the political landscape has changed since then?
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I don't think the real focus will be on Northern Ontario at all.
Danielle may get her pipeline to BC, but she will own it. Carney and Eby may reluctantly acquiesce to the Dinosaur but not because they want to. They and their principles will remain unsullied.
Their real attention, I believe, is focused on two plays:
Gray's Bay
Ungava
Wab Kinew is actively promoting the East West linkage from Rupert to Churchill. He may get it. Road, Rail, Electricity, Comms, possibly LNG pipelines. That part is well known.
Less well known is that he has also inked an agreement, backed by federal dollars, to link the Rankin Inlet, Baker Lake area with the Manitoba power and fibre optics systems. Those power lines will likely have an access road attached to them. That area already has a number of mines operating that are shipping out of Hudson Bay.
The western edge of the area is defined by the Grays Bay road and port project which goes by way of all the uranium and diamond mines.
A while back there was some talk about an arctic warfare training centre at Cambridge Bay across the water from Gray's Bay. Cambridge Bay ended up with a Research Station.
All of those projects could qualify under Carney's Infrastructure Budget.
As to Ungava
Canada Invests in Quebec’s Critical Minerals Sector to Create Jobs and a Strong Economy - Canada.ca
Today, the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, announced up to $43.5 million in investments under two critical mineral funding programs that will help to advance critical minerals research and infrastructure developments in Quebec.
Raglan Mine - Wikipedia
Fednav - www.fednav.com
Fednav excels in navigating the Canadian Arctic, Great Lakes, and St. Lawrence Seaway. With a fleet of 120 dry bulk carriers, we ensure seamless worldwide shipping.
Voisey Bay is just to the east of Ungave in Labrador
And ---
Nunavimmiut to get sneak peek at potential road link to south
Newspaper of record for Nunavut, and the Nunavik territory of Quebec
nunatsiaq.com
....
None of those projects will get the kind of push back that Northern Ontario or Coastal BC may generate.
A lot less political risk and a lot more political upside.
Add in Manitoba and Saskatchewan hydro as well as uranium and potash railways to Churchill and 40 BCAD of "off the books" "NATO-mandated" infrastructure looks easy.
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I recently posted a graph which showed Poland, Latvia and Estonia on one side of the 2% line and Canada on the other along with France, Germany, Italy and Spain.
Personal bias time.
I can't take a look at that group and not think Petain, Adolf, Mussolini and Franco. And as I keep saying, their corporate supporters did not disappear on VE-Day.
As an Albertan, this gives me hope for LNG and Oil. As a "liberal/libertarian" I am concerned for my kids' freedoms.
Czech_pivo
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With all this being laid out, there's a chance that NOTHING get built/developed in Ontario and yet we still achieve more than 1 outlet for new LNG pipelines, possible new oil pipelines, critical minerals being mined/refined/shipped, new ports, roads, infrastructure built elsewhere across the country. That northern Ontario FN Chief may have nothing to worry about concerning the people in southern Ontario benefiting, except for those who invest in the companies that build all of the above elsewhere in Canada.I don't think the real focus will be on Northern Ontario at all.
Danielle may get her pipeline to BC, but she will own it. Carney and Eby may reluctantly acquiesce to the Dinosaur but not because they want to. They and their principles will remain unsullied.
Their real attention, I believe, is focused on two plays:
Gray's Bay
Ungava
Wab Kinew is actively promoting the East West linkage from Rupert to Churchill. He may get it. Road, Rail, Electricity, Comms, possibly LNG pipelines. That part is well known.
Less well known is that he has also inked an agreement, backed by federal dollars, to link the Rankin Inlet, Baker Lake area with the Manitoba power and fibre optics systems. Those power lines will likely have an access road attached to them. That area already has a number of mines operating that are shipping out of Hudson Bay.
The western edge of the area is defined by the Grays Bay road and port project which goes by way of all the uranium and diamond mines.
A while back there was some talk about an arctic warfare training centre at Cambridge Bay across the water from Gray's Bay. Cambridge Bay ended up with a Research Station.
All of those projects could qualify under Carney's Infrastructure Budget.
As to Ungava
Canada Invests in Quebec’s Critical Minerals Sector to Create Jobs and a Strong Economy - Canada.ca
Today, the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson, Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, announced up to $43.5 million in investments under two critical mineral funding programs that will help to advance critical minerals research and infrastructure developments in Quebec.www.canada.ca
Raglan Mine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Fednav - www.fednav.com
Fednav excels in navigating the Canadian Arctic, Great Lakes, and St. Lawrence Seaway. With a fleet of 120 dry bulk carriers, we ensure seamless worldwide shipping.www.fednav.com
View attachment 94251
Voisey Bay is just to the east of Ungave in Labrador
And ---
Nunavimmiut to get sneak peek at potential road link to south
Newspaper of record for Nunavut, and the Nunavik territory of Quebec
....
None of those projects will get the kind of push back that Northern Ontario or Coastal BC may generate.
A lot less political risk and a lot more political upside.
Add in Manitoba and Saskatchewan hydro as well as uranium and potash railways to Churchill and 40 BCAD of "off the books" "NATO-mandated" infrastructure looks easy.
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It could be if Northern Ontario could get the treatment Nunavut gets.
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Could be good for everyone. Maybe. Maybe not.
Province of Northern Ontario.
Province of GTHA.
Province of the rest of Ontario.
Win, win and a win. < smile emoji
won't happen. Quebec would not vote for having their parliamentary power diluted in any way. Has anyone explained where all the copper to build these power lines to replace oil/gas is going to come from? Last I heard it was up over 10000 a tonne and getting increasingly hard to find as the major veins are all played out
Czech_pivo
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LOL, we'll go back to using Aluminum, I hear Quebec now has alot available.
HavokFour
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Most transmission lines are ACSR now (not to be confused with ACSS), copper transmission lines are pretty rare these days because like you've said it's insanely expensive. Copper is still a common component in other parts of power transmission like bus bars and grounding for example, but even then it's steadily being replaced by alternatives as new technology improves.
So yeah, this would be a boon for Quebec. Full speed ahead.
GR66
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That's already the case.
As per ChatGPT:
Edited to add: HavocFour beat me to itHydro One (Ontario’s major transmission utility) overwhelmingly uses Aluminum-Conductor Steel-Reinforced (ACSR) overhead lines for its high-voltage network (115 kV, 230 kV, and 500 kV levels)
Why ACSR?
- Composite design: an inner steel core for mechanical strength, wrapped by aluminum strands for electrical conductivity.
- Lightweight & sturdy: aluminum is cheaper and lighter than copper, while the steel core limits sag and handles tension.
- Industry standard: the most widely used overhead conductor globally and in Canada.
Hydro One’s Higher-Capacity Deployments
While ACSR remains the backbone of the system, Hydro One has begun using Aluminum Conductor Steel Supported (ACSS) conductors in specific upgrades—most notably between Lambton TS and Longwood TS—where higher current capacity was needed without rebuilding towers
These hybrids allow operation at higher temperatures and currents due to the annealed aluminum but rely on the steel core for support.
Emerging Technologies Under Consideration
Hydro One, and Ontario utilities more broadly, are testing High-Temperature Low-Sag (HTLS) alternatives like Aluminum Conductor Composite Core (ACCC) and Aluminum Conductor Composite Reinforced (ACCR). These use advanced composite cores (e.g., carbon/glass fibers) to carry more current with less sag, useful for reconductoring existing lines. However, these remain niche and are not yet primary for large-scale deployment.
KevinB
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So no one else can use Not Withstanding other than Quebec…
If a Province separates into two or more provinces, if they really any other province’s jurisdiction?
I don't think Aluminum is all that great for long distance lines. If it gets bent back and forth it tends to fracture, overheat and cause fires. I suspect that the winds that are required to power windmills would be more than sufficient to provide sufficient movement in the lines. You could always bury it I suppose but northern Canada isn't friendly territory for digging. Any electricians on line to correct me?
thank you
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Maybe Ontario could take a leaf from Quebec's playbook and learn how to play nicely with the locals. It has managed to come to terms with the James Bay Cree, source of all their hydro wealth and the Inuit of the Nunavik region, source of the new nickel wealth.
Heck, even us rednecks out west on the Prairies have figured out how to make friends with the locals. There are a lot of First Nations across Canada that are actively involved, and profitably, in resource development.
....
The Inuit are a particularly interesting case. We think of them as all Eskimos/Inuit. They see themselves as groups. In Canada there are four principle regions: Nunavut, Nunavik (Northern Quebec), Nunatsiavut (Northern Labrador) and Inuvialuit (Northern Yukon and Coastal Northwest Territory). Nunavut itself is subdivided into three regions: Kivalliq (Baker Lake Barren lands), Kitikmeot (Gray's Bay) and Qikiqtaaluk (Iqaluit and the Archipelago). Add in the Greenland Inuit and the Point Barrow Eskimos of Alaska and you have an interesting political study on its own, strategically speaking. A small number of people sitting on a massive opportunity under the right circumstances.
They have been happy enough to host massive diamond mines, gold mines, iron mines and nickel mines. They jealously guard their waters. They are principally a maritime culture. Their livelihoods come from the sea.
They want warmth. They want reliable power.
....
As to the copper, the issue of aluminum and steel was raised. What is the best material if the lines were run through conduit instead of over pylons?
In a plant I establish pipe runs. At particular points around the walls I put brackets from which I can hang pipes. I learned a while ago to make my brackets much longer than the number of pipes I have would dictate. I will always be adding new pipes. And conduits.
Those conduits run power(s - different voltages), coax, fibre, air, as well as waters, products, gases....
If Canada is going to develop these corridors then I would suggest it build the corridor on the basis of providing infrastructure to support multiple pipelines.
Even if no oil is transported then those brackets, bridges, tunnels and trenches could be used to transport natural gas, hydrogen, slurried minerals, mineral rich waters or CO2 as well as being conduits for fibre optics, cable or power. If the right of way is already cleared and the support systems are already in place then it would be interesting to see the cost differential between long distance transmission in a conduit (is it possible? Undersea cables are possible), and going overland by pylons.
Construction of the corridor, regardless of the utilities transported, will require a road along the route. A railroad in parallel would also reduce the cost of upgrading and maintaining the route as well as providing a link for package commodities. Commodities that could include LNG, CNG, NGLs, Oils and Coals.
And if you have the pipeline infrastructure in place you could even add a couple of oil lines to the route, at a considerably reduced cost.
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I wonder if the First Nations could petition to revert to being Federal, or even Crown, territories.
The current map is based on the 1912 division of spoils.
Here is the 1911 map
Of course that could open up this can of worms....
But I put First Nations relations on the Prairies and Territories, as well as in the Inuit territories, as more congenial than those in Ontario.
Inuit territories.
The James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement.
James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement - Canada.ca
An overview of the federal assessment and review process of the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement (JBNQA), as well as the technical and advisory organizations involved. It aims to facilitate access to information on projects being reviewed under the JBNQA, and to help the public better...
Pink is Inuit/Naskapi
Brown is Cree
GR66
Army.ca Veteran
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Again from our friends at ChatGPT:
Running high-voltage electrical transmission lines through conduit is generally not practical or recommended for several reasons. Here’s a breakdown of why:
For specific high-voltage applications (e.g., urban underground transmission), transmission lines can be run through specialized conduits or ducts, but this is a highly engineered solution that involves:
This setup is used where overhead lines aren't feasible (e.g., dense urban areas, airports, or sensitive environmental zones).
- Shielded cables (e.g., XLPE-insulated cables for 69kV, 138kV, 230kV, etc.)
- Concrete-encased duct banks
- Advanced thermal management (e.g., forced cooling, spacing)
- Special grounding and shielding
Summary:
- Heat Dissipation: High-voltage lines generate substantial heat. In conduit, there's limited airflow, which can lead to overheating unless managed with active cooling.
- Electrical Stress: HV lines require substantial insulation. Running them in conduit increases the risk of insulation breakdown if not properly rated.
- Size Constraints: HV transmission cables are large and often rigid. Installing them in conduit can be physically difficult or impossible depending on the voltage level.
- Cost: The cost of conduit, excavation, cooling, and cable terminations makes this method exponentially more expensive than overhead transmission.
- EMF and Interference: High voltages can induce strong electromagnetic fields, which require careful shielding in confined conduit installations.
Requires: Careful engineering for heat, stress, spacing, shielding, and grounding.
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It would be interesting to see if some of that might be obviated by running in parallel with the piping proposed.
Some other thoughts
- electrical lines require heat dissipation? oil lines benefit from heating.
- electrical lines benefit from insulation? CO2 in a great insulator.
- electrical lines suffer from size constraints - oil lines are typically 48" diameter
- costs, as noted, some of the costs can be defrayed by employing existing/shared infrastructure
- EMF - this does have to be carefully managed. An early failure (circa 1980 PLC) involved using a common run with compressed air lines, 120 VAC, 5 VDC and coax cables in a single enclosed tray. The flexing of the airlines as they operated valves flexed all the other lines. Splitters and junctions came loose. Currents leaked, intermittent failures abounded. Running separate conduits for the 120 V and 5 V as well as for the CoAx and the airlines solved the problem.
