Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Halifax Tar]

I did Force Protection at CFB Halifax for 7 years on a Class "C" from 2005-2012, when they decided it cost to much to maintain and the thereat level didn't require a full time standing force to do gate duty and water borne patrolling.

This Infantryman got some fun boat courses doing that.

Its really quite shocking when we go to different countries and see their security. They must laugh when they come here.

 

[KTown Cowboy]

Its really quite shocking when we go to different countries and see their security. They must laugh when they come here.

I don't think you are wrong about that.

 

[Remius]

Its really quite shocking when we go to different countries and see their security. They must laugh when they come here.

I remember a time when we’d be actually armed for certain security tasks. Now it seems people are afraid of risk. They are more worried about NDs over actual security gaps.

 

[KTown Cowboy]

I remember a time when we’d be actually armed for certain security tasks. Now it seems people are afraid of risk. They are more worried about NDs over actual security gaps.

We were armed, although it was just with a P225, ASP, OC Spray and a set of Cuffs. Occasionally with a C7 depending.

and to be fair at the time, I considered the Jet Boat I drove as my biggest weapon if needed.

 

[Remius]

We were armed, although it was just with a P225, ASP, OC Spray and a set of Cuffs. Occasionally with a C7 depending.

and to be fair at the time, I considered the Jet Boat I drove as my biggest weapon if needed.

For the stuff I did class A it was normally a C7 or pistol with one mag of live rounds.

Mostly for deterrence but it seemed like we were way more trusted back then than we are now.

 

[Remius]

South Korean shipyard sweetens pitch to Canada to build Navy’s next fleet of submarines

Hanwha Oceans is proposing multiple industrial partnerships and economic benefits in the hopes of sealing the deal

www.theglobeandmail.com

They really want this deal…quite the offer

 

[GR66]

I did Force Protection at CFB Halifax for 7 years on a Class "C" from 2005-2012, when they decided it cost to much to maintain and the thereat level didn't require a full time standing force to do gate duty and water borne patrolling.

This Infantryman got some fun boat courses doing that.

This seems a logical solution to me. Have a portion of Class "C" positions at the nearest Reserve unit. Gives you a full-time military security force without having to deal with postings. Works as a first step toward achieving a 30/70 force structure. Gives 'deployment" opportunities to Class "A" members. Actual "police" functions contracted out to the adjacent Municipal/Provincial police force and MP's focus on the military side of the MP role as well as support/augment the security force as required.

 

[lenaitch]

RCMP has a limited presence in Ontario and Quebec but it does include GD on reserves there when applicable.

Not in Ontario.

The problem with relying on an outside police force that isnt dedicated to your jurisdiction is that there is no guarantee they will treat calls to the base as being the same priority if not higher then local calls. Just look at an example of a place you mentioned Esquimalt. They moved from having their own police to having Victoria police them. Victoria stopped responding to low priority calls to the area and focused resources on the Victoria downtown. That is also to say nothing about the drama of local politics that often consumes many municipal police forces.

That's a topic pretty much every time public safety or municipal services are contracted out. I suspect that, if Esquimalt had kept their own police service, they would challenged with budget and staffing and would be looking at ways to cut back on minor calls. If they feel they aren't getting the service they contracted for, that's a matter for the police board or whatever governance they have out there.

I’ve heard of them backing up local police or OPP in Cornwall

The Cornwall Regional Task Force has been in place for years involving the RCMP, OPP Cornwall PS and I believe SQ, CBSA and FN PS. It was originally focused on tobacco smuggling but has expanded to other issues as the times have changed. The main issue is the jurisdictional dog's breakfast that is Akwesasne.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The RCN is going to have to come to terms with the need for actual security, probably uniformed, if we get AEGIS systems. That's going to change the whole ball game.

So the stuff we have now isn't worth guarding properly?

 

[Halifax Tar]

So the stuff we have now isn't worth guarding properly?

I guess that depends on your definition of the word properly.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

This seems a logical solution to me. Have a portion of Class "C" positions at the nearest Reserve unit. Gives you a full-time military security force without having to deal with postings. Works as a first step toward achieving a 30/70 force structure. Gives 'deployment" opportunities to Class "A" members. Actual "police" functions contracted out to the adjacent Municipal/Provincial police force and MP's focus on the military side of the MP role as well as support/augment the security force as required.

For the love of god, no.

This is an ad hoc solution.

We need to stop doing ad hoc security/force protection and finally grow up and resource it properly.

 

[daftandbarmy]

For the love of god, no.

This is an ad hoc solution.

We need to stop doing ad hoc security/force protection and finally grow up and resource it properly.

But they've got great trainers

Military Police teach Force Protection - Pacific Navy News

Sgt Frank Dominix and MCpl Jodi Woolridge from the Military Police Unit Esquimalt instructed crews from HMCS Whitehorse and HMCS Nanaimo on security procedures pertaining to persons, baggage and vehicle

lookoutnewspaper.com

 

[FJAG]

This seems a logical solution to me. Have a portion of Class "C" positions at the nearest Reserve unit. Gives you a full-time military security force without having to deal with postings. Works as a first step toward achieving a 30/70 force structure. Gives 'deployment" opportunities to Class "A" members. Actual "police" functions contracted out to the adjacent Municipal/Provincial police force and MP's focus on the military side of the MP role as well as support/augment the security force as required.

I'll get back to the concept of what divides the RegF from the ResF which is "continuing, full-time military service" v "other than continuing, full-time military service." Look at it from the point of view of steady state vs surging additional forces.

If we see a continuing need for a security force then those people ought to be RegF regardless of whether or not that's a reallocation of PYs to a priority function or new PYs being created.

By all means have a 30/70 force consisting of 30% RegF that fulfill the function day-to-day during peacetime and 70% Class A's who train part -time to do the function. In an emergency, when a greater force is needed, you compulsorily mobilize the 70% Class As to Class C's to augment the force.

If you wish to have full-time RegF without having to deal with postings, then create two classes of the RegF service - one that is liable for postings just as we see today and another one that can elect to remain in a given job in a given location for their entire career. It is not difficult to create a RegF structure where postings are of less relevance than they are now and a series of incentives for people to want the jobs that require some posting flexibility.

 

[GR66]

If you wish to have full-time RegF without having to deal with postings, then create two classes of the RegF service - one that is liable for postings just as we see today and another one that can elect to remain in a given job in a given location for their entire career. It is not difficult to create a RegF structure where postings are of less relevance than they are now and a series of incentives for people to want the jobs that require some posting flexibility.

I see this as a bit of a To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to issue. Your new class of RegF service is a member that is assigned to a permanent posting while a Reservist on Class C is a member that has full-time employment where they live. Either way it's someone fulfilling a full-time position and not being subject to re-location. One requires a new class of RegF service the other makes use of a class of Reserve service that already exists. I don't really care which way it is handled administratively but the end result remains the same.

 

[IKnowNothing]

I see this as a bit of a To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to issue. Your new class of RegF service is a member that is assigned to a permanent posting while a Reservist on Class C is a member that has full-time employment where they live. Either way it's someone fulfilling a full-time position and not being subject to re-location. One requires a new class of RegF service the other makes use of a class of Reserve service that already exists. I don't really care which way it is handled administratively but the end result remains the same.

I don't want to put words in @FJAG 's mouth - but from an organizational perspective there seems to be a fundamental difference between the two. A new class of RegF service (if widely used) forces a wholesale institutional shift in personnel management and mindsets where geo-static members are, at the end of the day, members, whereas bulking out class C's is a continuation of the status quo where the geo-static are "less than" contractors.

 

[Kirkhill]

I suspect you've hit a key issue facing most police forces right now. Most of our highly educated police officers view themselves as above routine patrol work. They want to do the high-speed stuff, and don't want to be "stuck" doing routine things like traffic or other patrol duties.

Maybe we need a multi-tiered policing system, that employs people who are happy being the patrol cops, as well as those who aspire to be the next real world Sherlock.

Or we can keep doing what we are doing, failing to recruit and retain enough people, and pretend that it's fine... What could go wrong when the average citizen realizes that the police aren't coming, and don't care?

We seem to have a lot of that going around these days.

Sir Robert Peel called for "citizens in uniform" and expected the rest of the citizenry to assist their fellow citizens in the commission of their duties. Up to and including apprehending and detaining suspects. (And defending themselves and their homes - but back to the point).

Peel assumed a mass of citizens, divided by class but, all citizens.

Currently we have a citizenry, including the police, divided into those that went to university and profess the faith and the rest of the unbelievers that didn't go to school.

And our institutions only recruit those that have learned the catechism.

Police, like many other sectors of society, are no longer reflective of the society they serve. They assist less and direct more.

In the States, in Indiana, the cops lived among us. To emphasize the fact they drove their cruisers home and parked them in their driveways.

 

[McG]

I see this as a bit of a To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to issue. Your new class of RegF service is a member that is assigned to a permanent posting while a Reservist on Class C is a member that has full-time employment where they live. Either way it's someone fulfilling a full-time position and not being subject to re-location. One requires a new class of RegF service the other makes use of a class of Reserve service that already exists. I don't really care which way it is handled administratively but the end result remains the same.

It is not “To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to” when we have the law governing the CAF explicitly stating one of these is not okay.

 

[McG]

RCN is going to have to come to terms with the need for actual security, probably uniformed, if we get AEGIS systems. That's going to change the whole ball game.

The whole of the CAF needs to have this realization.