Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Halifax Tar]

Not necessarily - I can see the requirement to FG personnel for bespoke joint organizations that are deployed abroad.

Lets get above the level of a few personnel posted to a ship. Say Task Force Latvia requires a modest medical unit of 30 people. We don't pick up a clinic or a field ambulance in Canada and deploy it; rather CJOC sends the tasks out to fill the positions in the unit via CFTPO. These tasks will now go to CFJC, rather than MPC, to manage and fill.



Here you go:

DAOD 5070-0

DAOD 5071-0

Occupational Authorities design, approve, monitor, and update each MOSIDs OccSpec. Each OccSpec is used to define pay, rank responsibilties, and training and promotion requirements. For the traditional services, it's quite easy - The Canadian Army Commander is the Occupation Authority for Artillery Gunners, and he also happens to own most of stuff required to organize, train, and equip artillery gunners. If we can't deliver indirect fires on operations, the CDS has one cat to kick.

Not so much for the purple trades, where Asst CMP is the default Occ Authority for those trades. So, for say a Comms Researcher, the Occ Authority is Asst CMP but the person is trained by the Digital Services Group and employed by a the Army, Navy, Air Force or by a DSC. Same with the Log trades, the HSS trades, etc, etc. Not clean, and when organization isn't clean, accountabilities aren't clean. "Why is my trade's training all jacked up?" - "...because everyone has their hands on the oar but nobody can or will take responsibility or be held accountable for managing it."

Part of the rationale behind CFJC is to address these issues.

Ok I think I actually get it. It's taking the occupational management of the purple trade out from CMP and making it an L1 of it's own.

 

[Infanteer]

To an extent, yes. There are other reasons as well.

 

[McG]

I expected to see more explicit mention of the Joint Deployable Headquarters (currently still with the name "1st Cdn Div HQ"), Canadian Forces Joint Operational Support Group, Canadian Forces Joint Signal Regiment, and Canadian Materiel Support Group in the announcement of CJFC. I assume the CMSG is under the Chief of Joint Logistics, but have the other entities moved?

And we shall see if CFD, JWC and other related elements get transferred from VCDS Group to CJFC.

CFD should stay where it is, but Director Joint Capability Development should move from CJOC to CJFC.

 

[ytz]

Putting IAMD into the CJFC is a good example of how the CAF doesn’t want to think about or practice joint operations on the force employment side, which bleeds into generation and management.

Disagree. I absolutely think this is a good spot. A big problem we have with IAMD is that the army runs it and it kinda clueless about it. We joke in the air staff about giving those guys "Lunch and Learn" PD. They are well intentioned. But stuff like this can't be a hobby. That function will finally get the support and attention it needs.

 

[McG]

A big problem we have with IAMD is that the army runs it and it kinda clueless about it.

The CA posted pers to work in IAMD, but the office is part of the Air Staff.

 

[Fabius]

Disagree. I absolutely think this is a good spot. A big problem we have with IAMD is that the army runs it and it kinda clueless about it. We joke in the air staff about giving those guys "Lunch and Learn" PD. They are well intentioned. But stuff like this can't be a hobby. That function will finally get the support and attention it needs.

I don’t disagree about the current army. However in addition to the NORAD dedicated IAMD elements (least I believe they are NORAD dedicated?) the Army will have air defence elements that will need to tie into the IADS.
Additionally the Army Bdes and really the new manoeuvre division will need greater understanding of the airspace and how to operate within it.

Allowing the Army to continue to be ignorant of the air domain is not acceptable in my opinion.

What trade is planned for these IAMD forces?

 

[Kirkhill]

I don’t disagree about the current army. However in addition to the NORAD dedicated IAMD elements (least I believe they are NORAD dedicated?) the Army will have air defence elements that will need to tie into the IADS.
Additionally the Army Bdes and really the new manoeuvre division will need greater understanding of the airspace and how to operate within it.

Allowing the Army to continue to be ignorant of the air domain is not acceptable in my opinion.

What trade is planned for these IAMD forces?

Light Blue and Green gets you Teal .... if that helps.

 

[ytz]

Light Blue and Green gets you Teal .... if that helps.

Our first real BMD capability wears white and black.

 

[ytz]

The CA posted pers to work in IAMD, but the office is part of the Air Staff.

Under NORAD Mod. I've come across them a few times.

 

[ytz]

I don’t disagree about the current army. However in addition to the NORAD dedicated IAMD elements (least I believe they are NORAD dedicated?) the Army will have air defence elements that will need to tie into the IADS.
Additionally the Army Bdes and really the new manoeuvre division will need greater understanding of the airspace and how to operate within it.

Allowing the Army to continue to be ignorant of the air domain is not acceptable in my opinion.

What trade is planned for these IAMD forces?

I don't think it's so much that the Army will be ignorant of the subject. I think it's that you need a landing place that has the ability to nurture and grow the capability. And the Army has so much else going on right now.

I also wouldn't rule out since kind of division of responsibility on Air Defence where small stuff like FPV drones are dealt with using organic capabilities at the company or even platoon level. But theatre level BMD assets are held by this JFC.

For now though, these guys will have the headspace to develop the capability without having to worry about the rest of the army stuff at the same time.

 

[Fabius]

I don't think it's so much that the Army will be ignorant of the subject. I think it's that you need a landing place that has the ability to nurture and grow the capability. And the Army has so much else going on right now.

I also wouldn't rule out since kind of division of responsibility on Air Defence where small stuff like FPV drones are dealt with using organic capabilities at the company or even platoon level. But theatre level BMD assets are held by this JFC.

For now though, these guys will have the headspace to develop the capability without having to worry about the rest of the army stuff at the same time.

Fair enough. The Army will have very little static for a while.
I remain uninformed of where the personnel for these IAMD elements will come from. Some questions in my mind that I suppose the IAMD cell will have to answer in time.

Is the CAF creating a new RCAF trade? A separate Army air defence trade? Or is it going to be a whole new trade that is neither Army nor Airforce?

Will the Army continue to have an AD stream inside the Arty? If the new IAMD trade exists why would the army SHORAD units not be that IAMD trade?

 

[FJAG]

Additionally the Army Bdes and really the new manoeuvre division will need greater understanding of the airspace and how to operate within it.

Allowing the Army to continue to be ignorant of the air domain is not acceptable in my opinion.

In fairness, the army maintained as little airspace capability and air defence as the CAF gave them money for. Air defence as a system (and there were over 900 gunners [reg and res] dedicated to it) atrophied during the decade of darkness until completely eliminated in 2011 with the recall of the last ADATs system even before Harper cut the budget. The government and CAF theory is that someone else would cover our deployed troops and Canada was an air force issue not an army one.

Tactical air space coordination remained an army skill set while AD was dying and even after AD disappeared. It remained (in the form of ASCCs) until a year or two ago when it was absorbed into the regenerating AD capability in 4 RCA (GS). Tactical air space coordination is now part and parcel to the reactivated ADCs and will merge into the new GBAD regiment.

Fair enough. The Army will have very little static for a while.
I remain uninformed of where the personnel for these IAMD elements will come from. Some questions in my mind that I suppose the IAMD cell will have to answer in time.

Neither do I. I can tell you that from the tactical side the artillery does have a major plan which includes GBAD and is already scheduled to go forward to the CCA for approval. Once done I expect more news to follow. I have zero insight into IAMD's future.

Is the CAF creating a new RCAF trade? A separate Army air defence trade? Or is it going to be a whole new trade that is neither Army nor Airforce?

Will the Army continue to have an AD stream inside the Arty? If the new IAMD trade exists why would the army SHORAD units not be that IAMD trade?

As far as I know the artillery, and the army and the CAF, is continuing to move forward with reforming tactical GBAD. The issue of whether there is a separate arty AD trade (as there was the last time) is still open as the arty is still a relatively small organization and needs to juggle career streams for field (gun and rocket), STA, AD general command and coordination functions.

Frankly, I can't see that the "Integrated" in IAMD makes any major change in the older and general system of air defence division of responsibilities for GBAD covering land forces being army and air based air defence being an air force responsibility - and for that matter sea-based AD being navy. Where I see the uncertainty is for homeland air defence. Being an old guy who can remember RCAF Voodoos and Bomarcs and Air Defence Command, I tend to favor the RCAF as having the lead in that.

I can see CJFC having a role to play in lowering the barriers between the silos through a coordination etc role, but I simply can't see a single purple trade that subsumes all three. I doubt that anyone wants that.

 

[RangerRay]

So the Trump administration big-foot’s over their allies then gets upset when said allies cut the US defence industry out of its build-up.

You can’t make this stuff up.

Top US official berates Europe over cutting American industry out of defense buildup

Washington is unhappy that some European arms programs limit U.S. participation.

www.politico.eu

 

[quadrapiper]

So the Trump administration big-foot’s over their allies then gets upset when said allies cut the US defence industry out of its build-up.

You can’t make this stuff up.

Top US official berates Europe over cutting American industry out of defense buildup

Washington is unhappy that some European arms programs limit U.S. participation.

www.politico.eu

DJT: "Hey, you parasitic Eurotrash, wokists with a too-pretty PM, Ukronazis, and all other leeches, take charge of your own defence! America won't be taken advantage of, you should do more for yourselves... wibble wibble wibble sleaze"

...

DJT: "Wait, not like that!"