Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Eaglelord17]

IF we started making our own arms, what do y’all think we’d start with?

Ammo is a great place to start, everyone always needs ammo. Weapons systems may or may not be adopted by many, making it a limited market, but say 155 arty shells never go out of popularity. Plus strategically having our own supply is critical as if everyone else needs some and we lack it, odds are we would be bottom of the list to get it.

Barrels are another product which is needed but doesn’t have to be the whole weapons system.

 

[Remius]

I think those things called NORAD and NATO would say otherwise.

Agreed however I suspect that those are still functioning because of the interpersonal relationships that exist at the military level. Created of decades of shared blood, toil and cooperation.

At the political and diplomatic level is the issue.

They are working for now despite attempts from the current administration to undermine them.

 

[PrairieFella]

Why not a Unimog made under license by General Dynamics, like the LVM program?

Because its a GWagon replacement program. Not an LS/ML replacement.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The USA is not a friend. It is not an ally. It is not to be trusted. As soon as CAF GOFOs get that through their skulls we can progress.

As soon as Canadians stop drinking their own anti-Trump bathwater, they can think rationally about the difference between "Trump administration" and "US".

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The USA is not a friend. It is not an ally. It is not to be trusted. As soon as CAF GOFOs get that through their skulls we can progress.

I think those things called NORAD and NATO would say otherwise.

I've been thinking a lot about that type of problem lately. The facts remain that geography and Geo-politics haven't changed since WWII. The physical threats faced by Canada have to come by sea or by air, with the exception of the US. The same goes for them, with the exception of Canada and Mexico. They are not worried about us or Mexico, but they worry about other nations coming at them from Canada or Mexico and will defend themselves from that no matter what.

Therefore, as a first step in keeping the US from acting as they wish in our territory, we have to work with them on joint maritime and air defense, and as those are highly technical forces, it has to be regular forces heavy. Any incursion in our territory by a nation other than the US would necessarily start small, and even then, making it big quickly enough would be incredibly difficult unless that invader had mastery of the sky or oceans around Canada. The most likely scenario for such incursion is obviously the Arctic. Deterrence and repelling of such incursion needs small but highly professional soldiers equipped with high end, highly deployable weapons systems. Again here, it has to be regular forces heavy.

One of the results of the above, as we all know, is that there are a lot of American military personnel serving in our headquarters and bases, just like we have Canadians embedded in US forces, so when it comes to the last potential threat to Canada - a land invasion by the US - we are at a disadvantage in being able to plan and surprise them with our potential defenses.

That's is where I've been thinking that perhaps, on top of DND/CAF we need something that would be akin to a cross of the Swedish Home Guard and Swiss Army dispersed system. A force of say, 300,000 to 400,000 part time soldiers members of battalions dispersed throughout Canada, fully equipped with up-to-date mobile weapons systems, having their own separate minister and administration - away from DND/CAF - but getting their marching orders from CDS through a separate channel. That would equate the Swedish Home Guard part. The Swiss part would be that these battalions and their equipment would be pre-located in various places known only to the Battalion and organized in such way that few if any person in the "Home Guard" would know where they all are, who is in which battalion, and what equipment or specific task each battalion has.

To me, such a Canadian Home Guard, would be credible deterrent to the US, as it would be near impossible for them to know what they face and where in case of invasion.

Anyway, that's just an idea.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Made in Canada" is just as much an economic mistake as tariffs and "Made in America" (because it tends to increase costs). The mitigating factor is one of the two usual exceptions to protectionism - security - but that is mostly relevant either when you think you're going to end up fighting your supplier, or that your supplier will cut you off, particularly if they need their own output. The latter problem exists for any partnership.

Congress is historically where most of the Canada-US friction originates, just as for them it is our Parliament. Congress is separate from the administration.

A bunch of people provoked by Trump are having their way with Canadian industrial policy; they are in a hurry; they will not rule the roost forever; the "threat" will diminish; everything will cost more (in some cases, much more) than originally budgeted; old interests like the '90s "pro-China" people will crawl back out from under their rocks. A huge risk to Canada is that in a few years we will have sunk a lot of borrowed money into a few things that don't prove out the way they were sold. (When I think of government infrastructure planning and spending, I remember fast ferries, the north shore wastewater treatment plant, long-delayed bridge and tunnel replacements.) In the case of the CAF, we probably will end up with a mix of equipment and capabilities decided not by a grand plan but simply by whoever had ducks in a row to get their spending out the door right now and for the next couple of years.

 

[FJAG]

Because its a GWagon replacement program. Not an LS/ML replacement.

I don't want another GWagon.

IMHO, we need a large fleet of Roshel Senator Pickups as our multipurpose runaround fleet. It's on-the-shelf, and ready to go. To add to that build light, open ISV-like troop carriers on the same chassis for the light infantry.

Let's stay with a keep it simple concept.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't want another GWagon.

IMHO, we need a large fleet of Roshel Senator Pickups as our multipurpose runaround fleet. It's on-the-shelf, and ready to go. To add to that build light, open ISV-like troop carriers on the same chassis for the light infantry.

Let's stay with a keep it simple concept.

And to that point, use them in large numbers to equip the 'Canadian Home Guard' that @Oldgateboatdriver is talking about.