Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Retired AF Guy]

1 and 3 RCHA will be in shilo still, could they come out to suffield to shoot? Sure but infrastructure wise suffield has a lot of room to grow, especially with the British withdrawal. New shacks, messes etc

I thought the British were back?

 

[MilEME09]

I thought the British were back?

They said that but it hasnt happened

 

[Underway]

The plan is to run BRT out of the NRDs across the country. Ideally situating the recruit as close to their home as possible.

This is the dumbest friggin thing I've heard today. The current NavRes BMQ construct is a failure. 24 units, 25 standards. And they don't have remotely the staff or facilities to actually run this anywhere but near a major base. I've seen the products of remote BMQ from the NavRes "accelerated" entry program. Garbage entitled dumbasses because their unit CO's are worried about numbers not quality, so discipline is lacking severely.

Send them all to a central location and be done with it. Or at least a regional location. And make them stay overnight.

Trade and element dependent with the air force being the most flexible. For example, the RCAF will allow senior Captains affiliated with land aviation to do the CA's AOC in lieu of the RCAF's ASPOC so that those personnel better understand their CA peers (and clients). Meanwhile, nobody is making dentists do AOC, even though they are all green DEU. They do the JSOP course offered by CFC.

Really we probably need a bit more rationalization on what purple really means to different trades, units, etc.

AOC is a Major's course. ATOC is a pre OFP course.* As such the purple idea.

*I was corrected below... ATOC post OFP

 

[McG]

Send them all to a central location and be done with it. Or at least a regional location. And make them stay overnight.

This would be the best way to train a professional force.

AOC is a Major's course. ATOC is a pre OFP course. As such the purple idea.

Both courses are post OFP. Junior captains attend ATOC. AOC is typically the gateway from mid-range captain to high range captain.

 

[Underway]

This would be the best way to train a professional force.


Both courses are post OFP. Junior captains attend ATOC. AOC is typically the gateway from mid-range captain to high range captain.

So what's the one that happens after BMQ, where Jr officers go and learn how to do a section attack etc...

 

[McG]

So what's the one that happens after BMQ, where Jr officers go and learn how to do a section attack etc...

BMOQ - Land

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is the dumbest friggin thing I've heard today. The current NavRes BMQ construct is a failure. 24 units, 25 standards. And they don't have remotely the staff or facilities to actually run this anywhere but near a major base. I've seen the products of remote BMQ from the NavRes "accelerated" entry program. Garbage entitled dumbasses because their unit CO's are worried about numbers not quality, so discipline is lacking severely.

Send them all to a central location and be done with it. Or at least a regional location. And make them stay overnight.


AOC is a Major's course. ATOC is a pre OFP course.* As such the purple idea.

*I was corrected below... ATOC post OFP

Lol tell me how you really feel lol

 

[dapaterson]

This is the dumbest friggin thing I've heard today. The current NavRes BMQ construct is a failure. 24 units, 25 standards. And they don't have remotely the staff or facilities to actually run this anywhere but near a major base. I've seen the products of remote BMQ from the NavRes "accelerated" entry program. Garbage entitled dumbasses because their unit CO's are worried about numbers not quality, so discipline is lacking severely.

Send them all to a central location and be done with it. Or at least a regional location. And make them stay overnight.

Standards is a key element of effective training.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Standards is a key element of effective training.

Artificially inflating your throughput is a key element in making it look like one has effective training (despite the wreckage you create downstream in operational units as they now have to deal with the individuals who are unsuited to military life that they let through…)

But…Topline numbers, for the win!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Artificially inflating your throughput is a key element in making it look like one has effective training (despite the wreckage you create downstream in operational units as they now have to deal with the individuals who are unsuited to military life that they let through…)

But…Topline numbers, for the win!

The idea for the RCN is to have sailors finish their initial training and be set to go to sea. Sort of like NEP where they can get their sea legs and experience different trades.

The unique environment in which we, you and I both, serve needs to be experienced and the physiological and psychological ability to endure a life at sea needs to be tested before we invest in long and expensive training for them.

Call me a Kool aide drinker but I think we will be better off culturally immersing our recruits in the naval environment right from the get go, as opposed to the current CAF model of initial entry training.

 

[ytz]

Is there training between NEP and trades courses to make up any gaps?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Is there training between NEP and trades courses to make up any gaps?

There is no trades training on NEP.

It's just a year long, paid, experience the Navy program. You get rotated through different jobs, at sea and ashore, and hopefully you find one that fits for you and you choose to stay with us longer.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Is there training between NEP and trades courses to make up any gaps?

NEP stands for Naval Experience Program. It is, by definition, not a Military Occupation. Anyone on NEP has 1 year to select a trade. If they don’t, by mutual agreement they are released after 1 year.

It is not the primary method of recruiting for the RCN, with a throughput of only about 240/year.

Edit: what Halifax Tar said…

 

[dapaterson]

Artificially inflating your throughput is a key element in making it look like one has effective training (despite the wreckage you create downstream in operational units as they now have to deal with the individuals who are unsuited to military life that they let through…)

But…Topline numbers, for the win!

Elimination of selection standards and ignoring training standards is a fine way to increase pre OFP attrition.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Elimination of selection standards and ignoring training standards is a fine way to increase pre OFP attrition.

It is also a fine way of increasing post-OFP attrition as middle managers are driven to alcoholism trying to document miscreants; sort out their basic character flaws; and spend years trying to release them…

 

[brihard]

There is no trades training on NEP.

It's just a year long, paid, experience the Navy program. You get rotated through different jobs, at sea and ashore, and hopefully you find one that fits for you and you choose to stay with us longer.

Does it seem to be working?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Does it seem to be working?

I dont have the stats, but I am very good friends with Coxswain of the NEP group in Halifax.

From what he tells me it's been a success. But I'm not sure how we continue it with incoming Naval BRT. Maybe they can coexist but I see crossover.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Does it seem to be working?

The last numbers I saw were something like 80% of NEPs elect to stay in the CAF after their one year engagement, but not necessarily in the RCN. Something like 60% stay in the RCN, which is not awful. I have questions like- do the more motivated folks at CFRCs self select NEP as a quicker way into the CAF? Longitudinally, are the NEPs staying longer/more successful on trades training and progressing faster?

It would be a fascinating area for the Personnel Resource Folks in Ottawa to study.

 

[brihard]

I dont have the stats, but I am very good friends with Coxswain of the NEP group in Halifax.

From what he tells me it's been a success. But I'm not sure how we continue it with incoming Naval BRT. Maybe they can coexist but I see crossover.

Seems like they could be merged, if my understanding of the last few posts is correct? If RCN is comfortable taking in recruits, getting them through BMQ and NETP, and employing them at sea as general use sailors to test them out, really then it’s just a matter of how long they’ve signed for and what’s next.

The last numbers I saw were something like 80% of NEPs elect to stay in the CAF after their one year engagement, but not necessarily in the RCN. Something like 60% stay in the RCN, which is not awful. I have questions like- do the more motivated folks at CFRCs self select NEP as a quicker way into the CAF? Longitudinally, are the NEPs staying longer/more successful on trades training and progressing faster?

It would be a fascinating area for the Personnel Resource Folks in Ottawa to study.

I wondered that too; the extent to which it’s simply become an alternate recruiting path for those woods join anyway. But there’s probably decent data available on that for someone to crunch.

 

[dapaterson]

The last numbers I saw were something like 80% of NEPs elect to stay in the CAF after their one year engagement, but not necessarily in the RCN. Something like 60% stay in the RCN, which is not awful. I have questions like- do the more motivated folks at CFRCs self select NEP as a quicker way into the CAF? Longitudinally, are the NEPs staying longer/more successful on trades training and progressing faster?

It would be a fascinating area for the Personnel Resource Folks in Ottawa to study.

They have studied and compared to parallel non NEP cohorts. And are continuing to do so.

NEP are less likely to stay in the CAF and less likely to stay in the RCN than their peer group who select RCN managed occupations from the beginning (at the one year point).