Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[brihard]

They have studied and compared to parallel non NEP cohorts. And are continuing to do so.

NEP are less likely to stay in the CAF and less likely to stay in the RCN than their peer group who select RCN managed occupations from the beginning (at the one year point).

It seems intuitive that those already willing to walk into a CFRC and join navy would have a higher ‘stick with it’ rate than those invited to sample the navy with less commitment.

I’d want to know, out of the cohort of those who would not commit to an initial engagement with RCN up front, but would give NEP a whirl, what the retention for RCN specifically and CAF generally looks like? I.e., is NEP letting CAF attract, convince, and retain ‘maybes’ who otherwise would have been a ‘no’ under the conventional system?

I hope there’s good data capture of those leaving after NEP about why they don’t choose to stay.

 

[dapaterson]

It seems intuitive that those already willing to walk into a CFRC and join navy would have a higher ‘stick with it’ rate than those invited to sample the navy with less commitment.

I’d want to know, out of the cohort of those who would not commit to an initial engagement with RCN up front, but would give NEP a whirl, what the retention for RCN specifically and CAF generally looks like? I.e., is NEP letting CAF attract, convince, and retain ‘maybes’ who otherwise would have been a ‘no’ under the conventional system?

I hope there’s good data capture of those leaving after NEP about why they don’t choose to stay.

Exit surveys are supposed to be administered to all.

And would have to be compared to parallel cohorts, to be meaningful.

And finally, would need leadership willing to do the readings and understand the data, and not command based on anecdotes and factually unsupported individual biases.

 

[Kirkhill]

They said that but it hasnt happened

The Brits have been saying lots of things that haven't happened.

They are primarily waiting on the government to decide on a defence investment plan for the next decade. I believe it is about 1 year late and 28 BUKP short.

 

[Underway]

The idea for the RCN is to have sailors finish their initial training and be set to go to sea. Sort of like NEP where they can get their sea legs and experience different trades.

The unique environment in which we, you and I both, serve needs to be experienced and the physiological and psychological ability to endure a life at sea needs to be tested before we invest in long and expensive training for them.

Call me a Kool aide drinker but I think we will be better off culturally immersing our recruits in the naval environment right from the get go, as opposed to the current CAF model of initial entry training.

So I did some more research on BMQ at NRD's. The plan is to do initial cadre training at the reserve units before they are sent on all navy residential training. So they will get a common residential.

So basically they get kit issue, all the admin and then sent to residential,

This is actually the new MPDG plan for the entire CAF. BTL hosting units to get their admin completed and reduce BMQ time. It will also allow for initial evaluation of candidates and early release if they are not doing well at that point, before they even get to BMQ. Still in the planning stages.

It is also a fine way of increasing post-OFP attrition as middle managers are driven to alcoholism trying to document miscreants; sort out their basic character flaws; and spend years trying to release them…

What folks may not know is that we implemented a Probationary Period Statement of Understanding at recruiting in about November 25. It allows for easy firing of members before OFP, for pretty much all the right reasons (training failures, discipline issues, violation of a whole swath of policies)

We were slow to hire and impossible to fire. Due to the probationary period implementation the training system has a tool to get rid of does not meet standard, and we're able to take more risk, and plan for higher attrition. Because standards are less rigorous in the effort to get more in faster the option to get rid of bad employees early is there, whereas before the training system was handcuffed.

The last numbers I saw were something like 80% of NEPs elect to stay in the CAF after their one year engagement, but not necessarily in the RCN. Something like 60% stay in the RCN, which is not awful.

50-60% stay in the RCN, but of the remainder who stay most choose navy uniform in support trades like MMT. Some of them also choose NavRes/Militia in their local communities.

I have questions like- do the more motivated folks at CFRCs self select NEP as a quicker way into the CAF?

Its not quicker. So nope. But if they don't know what they want to do and are having analysis paralysis we point to that as an option.

Edit: SIP for NEP (SAILOR) is 450 pers this year. So up from 250. It's wildly successful. Even with the higher attrition the greater throughput still ends up with more people that stay in the RCN at the other end. And the word of mouth is spectacular.

 

[Stoker]

No, not for the RCN anyways.

The plan is to run BRT out of the NRDs across the country. Ideally situating the recruit as close to their home as possible.

God willing this will be concept proven this summer out of Scotian starting off with 60 pers. Then hopefully ramping up across the country to 1k pers.

The course content will be such that first half of the course is your common trg. Drill, saluting, ranks, admin ect ect ect. The second half is the NETP.

At the end we get a sailor that we can send to the fleet and at least be 'safe at sea', for lack of a better term, and find out more into career selection and development.

We did this before lack in the last 80's. Unit recruited and trained their own personnel.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So I did some more research on BMQ at NRD's. The plan is to do initial cadre training at the reserve units before they are sent on all navy residential training. So they will get a common residential.

So basically they get kit issue, all the admin and then sent to residential,

This is actually the new MPDG plan for the entire CAF. BTL hosting units to get their admin completed and reduce BMQ time. It will also allow for initial evaluation of candidates and early release if they are not doing well at that point, before they even get to BMQ. Still in the planning stages.

Yup that initial phase at the NRD will inclue general military stuff. Drill, ranks, saluting ect. They are being paid and expected to show up to work every day.

The phase 2 right now is going to be done at the fleet school on Quebec city.

It's actually close to what RAdm Walter Hose had envisioned for NAVRES I think.

 

[MilEME09]

The Brits have been saying lots of things that haven't happened.

They are primarily waiting on the government to decide on a defence investment plan for the next decade. I believe it is about 1 year late and 28 BUKP short.

Its also a battle over the clean up of the base, seems the British don't wanna pay their fair share

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Well acquainted with the Probationary Period and the COs as release authority.

The problem is that nobody told COs what the actual procedure was and,

DMCA still wants to be consulted (ie allowed to Veto), so the CO is not actually the release authority, in practice.

 

[Stoker]

I wonder if this expanded recruiting and getting the sailors to sea have anything to do with AOPV's getting accommodation modules for more personnel and the SSI's on the remaining operable Kingston's possibly getting extensions?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I wonder if this expanded recruiting and getting the sailors to sea have anything to do with AOPV's getting accommodation modules for more personnel and the SSI's on the remaining operable Kingston's possibly getting extensions?

Sailors need to go to sea. So that stands to reason.

 

[Kirkhill]

Its also a battle over the clean up of the base, seems the British don't wanna pay their fair share

I just love that word fair.

So many billable hours.