There was always CHCH in Hamilton, featuring Tiny Talent Time and the Randy Dandy show, for those who didn't watch the Friendly Giant and before that Howdy Doody.The only time that I heard CFRB was when I dialled my transistor radio from CKEY (580 as it then was) to CHUM (1050) and paused for a second on CFRB at 1010. I was a slave to Classic Gold Rock (when it wasn't classic yet but brand new). I still am. My Sirius channel is permanently set to "'60s on 6" (and now "'60s Gold" on 73 since they moved it). CFRB did not do Rock, AFAIK.
True, it did. But the Arrow had been terminated before that.
Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC
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Yes. And frequently with better programming than CBC even though it was a CBC affiliate, if I recall correctly. I remember it played some great older (1930s and 1940s) pirate movies from time to time. I'm trying to remember if it also played the Gray Ghost series (which was a CBS production) It might be that the WBEN signal was strong enough by then to make it to our Scarborough antenna.
Sad but true. Amazing what effect having to show a profit has on the quality of the product even back then.Yes. And frequently with better programming than CBC even though it was a CBC affiliate, if I recall correctly. I remember it played some great older (1930s and 1940s) pirate movies from time to time. I'm trying to remember if it also played the Gray Ghost series (which was a CBS production) It might be that the WBEN signal was strong enough by then to make it to our Scarborough antenna.
KevinB
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It wasn’t an aircraft. It was an airframe.
You can’t sell an airframe. The avionics, radar weaponry was all seriously under developed.
It was like Canada had missed the memo that guns were not the primary anymore.
The weirdest aspect to the cancellation was the destruction of all the blueprints and physical materials for the aircraft.
Feb 1959 wasn’t really the high water mark of paranoia down here either. McCarthyism had been dwindling since 1954 and his censure.
Canada has been seen as a solid partner in Korea and the St Lawrence Seaway has been opened as a peak joint effort.
Later in 1959, after the Arrow cancellation tensions came over Cuba — but from everything I have read, the largest killer of the Arrow was the cost, when combined with the fact the FCS/Weapons where nowhere, and a fast gun jet to intercept bombers didn’t really fill the bill due to ICBM’s.
Many US designs for fast jets adopted radar and missiles to stay viable - and they gobbled up the brainpower from Avro.
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Cost - definitely. The argument was that the CF 100s and the Bomarc were enough so why spend money. Shortly after we bought the CF-104 as an interceptor (with guns and rockets and missiles) and then the CF-101 with nuclear missiles. So there's that.
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Wrong AC for our purposes but relatively cheap.Cost - definitely. The argument was that the CF 100s and the Bomarc were enough so why spend money. Shortly after we bought the CF-104 as an interceptor (with guns and rockets and missiles) and then the CF-101 with nuclear missiles. So there's that.
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I suppose we could discuss pedantry but, as far as I recall, all five Mark Is flew so I'll stick with calling it an aircraft.
I have never read anything that suggested the Arrow was to be equipped with guns. Missiles were intended to be carried in a retractable internal weapons pod that could be changed out like a cassette.
McCarthyism was in the mirror but it was still in the depths of the Cold War. There are all sorts of theories about why everything; plans, tooling, etc. were ordered destroyed; Soviet spies working at Avro is one of them.
Halifax Tar
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Good podcast on the subject matter.
www.readtheline.ca
On The Line: When Trump is gone, will we still want a bigger military?
Plus: a report from Israel's war against Hezbollah drones. It's not going well!
www.readtheline.ca
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Navy selects designs for Medium Unmanned Surface Vessel competition
The criteria call for a vessel with a range of at least 2,500 nautical miles and a speed of 25 knots. It must be able to operate in rough seas.
7 Offshore Support Vessel / Medium Uncrewed Surface Vessel designs selected. 15 MUSD apiece allocated for construction.
36 to be procured in fiscal 2026.
2500 nautical miles at 25 knots in Sea State 4 with 25 tons of payload in two 40 foot containers.
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FYI
globalnews.ca
Do Canada’s defence promises exceed results? Experts echo U.S. criticism - National | Globalnews.ca
Researchers said increased defence investments and strategies mean little without a clear national security plan that lays out what Canada's military is preparing for.
globalnews.ca
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Show me the money...
...
“What we don’t want to do is take a list that was sitting in the drawer from … even last year, and say, ‘Okay, we’ll take that’ — that will be the wrong decision,” Carney said.
“There’s a series of other investments that we can make that will help protect Canadians, first and foremost, help our allies,” he added.
....
Bureacratese for "jam tomorrow, jam on sunday, but never jam today."
If he is expecting the rate of change to slow so that he can make a no risk decision he is going to be waiting a long time.
...
“What we don’t want to do is take a list that was sitting in the drawer from … even last year, and say, ‘Okay, we’ll take that’ — that will be the wrong decision,” Carney said.
“There’s a series of other investments that we can make that will help protect Canadians, first and foremost, help our allies,” he added.
....
Bureacratese for "jam tomorrow, jam on sunday, but never jam today."
If he is expecting the rate of change to slow so that he can make a no risk decision he is going to be waiting a long time.
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It was an odd time for interceptors, guns were quite limited in what they could do, but unguided rockets turned out to be a complete failure as well. It was realized that guided missiles were the way to go, but the technology was not yet really there. A good chunk of the expenses for the Arrow, was the missile system and once that was cleaved off, costs became manageable, but sadly to late to save the program.
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Does this Australian article apply to Canada?
www.lowyinstitute.org
Modern war and the systemic learning deficit in Western military institutions
Battlefield evidence is everywhere. The will to act on it is the missing Western capability.
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From the preceding article.
Ukraine has built what is now one of the world’s most consequential live battlefield AI learning platforms. The OCHI system, a Ukrainian non-profit initiative, centralises video feeds from more than 15,000 frontline drone crews. Since 2022, it has aggregated two million hours of drone footage — equivalent to approximately 228 years of continuous observation — from which AI models are trained on combat tactics, target recognition, and assessing the effectiveness of weapons systems.* This is not AI for targeting. It is AI applied to the problem of learning: building a continuously updated model of what works, what fails, and why, from the largest dataset of contemporary combat ever assembled. In March 2026, Ukraine opened this infrastructure to multiple AI vendors simultaneously, establishing the first multi-party platform for training AI models on near-real-time battlefield data, specifically designed to close the gap between laboratory simulation and unpredictable operational conditions.* The practical consequences of this investment are already apparent: the integration of AI guidance into Ukrainian first-person view (FPV) drone operations has increased strike effectiveness from 30–50 per cent to 80 per cent.*
Ukraine has built what is now one of the world’s most consequential live battlefield AI learning platforms. The OCHI system, a Ukrainian non-profit initiative, centralises video feeds from more than 15,000 frontline drone crews. Since 2022, it has aggregated two million hours of drone footage — equivalent to approximately 228 years of continuous observation — from which AI models are trained on combat tactics, target recognition, and assessing the effectiveness of weapons systems.* This is not AI for targeting. It is AI applied to the problem of learning: building a continuously updated model of what works, what fails, and why, from the largest dataset of contemporary combat ever assembled. In March 2026, Ukraine opened this infrastructure to multiple AI vendors simultaneously, establishing the first multi-party platform for training AI models on near-real-time battlefield data, specifically designed to close the gap between laboratory simulation and unpredictable operational conditions.* The practical consequences of this investment are already apparent: the integration of AI guidance into Ukrainian first-person view (FPV) drone operations has increased strike effectiveness from 30–50 per cent to 80 per cent.*
daftandbarmy
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Does this Australian article apply to Canada?
Modern war and the systemic learning deficit in Western military institutions
Battlefield evidence is everywhere. The will to act on it is the missing Western capability.
With the West in general the issue isn't the how, it's the 'why' ...
“Those who have a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'.” Viktor E. Frankl
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I read his book years ago when I live in the CR, changed my thinking and outlook on a number of things. Thanks for reminding me about this, I'm going to find the book in my library and re-read it 30yrs later.
daftandbarmy
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As he was a holocaust survivor, and his wife died in Treblinka (I think), the current state of international affairs might make it a little more topical
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That time period in the CR is when I visited Auschwitz, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Theresienstadt and Flossenburg.As he was a holocaust survivor, and his wife died in Treblinka (I think), the current state of international affairs might make it a little more topical
KevinB
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Again leaving an Airframe or for @lenaitch an aircraft, but not a fighter...
McDonnel Douglas fielded the F-4 Phantom II just months before the Arrow cancellation.
It has missiles as a primary, and the M61 cannon was only added integrally in the E and later models.
Fitted for not with - the original Canadian Armed Forces procurement model
It also had external hard points - at least based on the smaller models that didn't get destroyed. Barry's Bay Ontario has a
The Mig-25 Foxbat shared a lot of similarities in the Arrow design as well - it kicked off just after the Arrow was cancelled - so one wonders, or when McDonnel and Grumman hired all the engineers etc down here - that was a recruitment task? We will never know - but interesting possibilities.
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