Canada moves to 2% GDP end of FY25/26 - PMMC

[Czech_pivo]

Another 190 ACSV's?

With what we've given to the Ukkie's over the last 24months, what is the 'net gain' for the CA?

 

[PuckChaser]

Its a hidden figures game. Government never tells anyone whether the donations are from stock or new builds. In practice, its almost always from stock.

We've donated or committed to 89 vehicles so net gain of 101.

 

[MilEME09]

Another 190 ACSV's?

With what we've given to the Ukkie's over the last 24months, what is the 'net gain' for the CA?

we only gave the ukrainians about 30, the rest were purchased, not donated

 

[Czech_pivo]

we only gave the ukrainians about 30, the rest were purchased, not donated

So of the 190 announced today, 35 of them will cover the 35 we gave the Ukkie's last week, so our fleet will grow overall by 155?

 

[PrairieFella]

So of the 190 announced today, 35 of them will cover the 35 we gave the Ukkie's last week, so our fleet will grow overall by 155?

Good to see it grow. Personally I think the delta should have been about 200-250 but its a good add all the same.

Also announced a strategic partnership with GDLSC whatever that means.

 

[MilEME09]

So of the 190 announced today, 35 of them will cover the 35 we gave the Ukkie's last week, so our fleet will grow overall by 155?

something like that but id have to dig and see if we didn't quietly order a few more to cover the donated ones. Ill be interested in what the distribution of these vehicles to units.

 

[PuckChaser]

Good to see it grow. Personally I think the delta should have been about 200-250 but its a good add all the same.

Also announced a strategic partnership with GDLSC whatever that means.

It's political speech nonsense. We could always use more but I will never look a gift horse in the mouth.

If they revive CCV project, GDLS has one of the contracts for XM30 (Bradley replacement). Looks promising as an optionally manned IFV.

 

[MilEME09]

It's political speech nonsense. We could always use more but I will never look a gift horse in the mouth.

If they revive CCV project, GDLS has one of the contracts for XM30 (Bradley replacement). Looks promising as an optionally manned IFV.

MCAV is basically CCV 2.0 to outfit the RCD and 12 RBC. Still waiting for more movement on HDFM since they want a second tank regiment out west, but ill believe that when I see orders for more vehicles, and the stand up of a Regiment.

 

[PrairieFella]

FYI ACV-W was mentioned as part of the strategic partnership in the pressheet - just not mentioned in the speech.

ACV-W might end up being similar to the LAV 6 2.0 that was shown at CANSEC a couple years ago.

 

[FJAG]

I'll agree that the Strategic Partnership is much more important than the new ACSVs. The partnership opens the door to ACV-W and all that entails albeit the scale of things will vary over time. IMHO, this virtually guarantees that the CA will be a wheeled and not tracked force for many years to come.

You know me, I'm a tracks guy and not a fan of the current LAV 6.0 format but one can design new wheeled IFVs/CCVs that can carry a larger number of dismounts while mounting relevant RWS on top for CUAS, anti-armour weapons and APS. And that includes rebuilding our current LAV 6.0 fleet to something more relevant.

I'd be willing to bet money that an MGS on a LAV 10x10 and something with a 120mm mortar like the M1129 Stryker (or perhaps with a NEMO turret if we're more ambitious) is a virtual shoo-in for the IFM and down the road for something like the MSHORAD for divisional GBAD. I can also see these forming the basis of a future MCAV fleet.

It's not a sour grapes thing from my fevered track-focused mind, but the doors have opened for rapid development and procurement of a wide ranging fleet of purpose built SEVs for all MCO-oriented armoured purposes except the HDFM. I'd say that the folks who favour strategic mobility over tactical mobility have won and, in that respect, the army has won.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Its a hidden figures game. Government never tells anyone whether the donations are from stock or new builds. In practice, its almost always from stock.

We've donated or committed to 89 vehicles so net gain of 101.

But the press release says that the CA has 360 and with these announced 190, the CA will have 550 it says.

The 89 + 35 announced last week in Turkey for Ukraine means that GDLS must have been on slow build to replace those items all along.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Noah is reporting its looking like additional ACSVs and the first tranche of the ACV-W program - upgraded LAVs with a 30mm, ATGM/LM and other upgrades over time, potential hybrid drives, upgraded engines, etc.

If an ATGM capability is included it would be interesting to see which one it is.
; Spike or Akeron?

 

[PrairieFella]

If an ATGM capability is included it would be interesting to see which one it is.
; Spike or Akeron?

PAXM is pretty much guaranteed to be Spike by my read.

 

[markppcli]

Is that happening ? Because we cant get printed forms right now nor can we get a response from the vaunted center... Don't even get me started on critical spare parts.

It seems what you guys are seeing in the emerald city and what we are seeing in munchkin land are two very different realities.

Oh yeah it is. The changes to what units can order has been a huge boon for us. Weve been 2227ing a ton of cabling and comms gear thats largely plug and play. We even have a 3d printer thats going to build us drone frames.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Oh yeah it is. The changes to what units can order has been a huge boon for us. Weve been 2227ing a ton of cabling and comms gear thats largely plug and play. We even have a 3d printer thats going to build us drone frames.

Genuinely glad to hear its working for someone.

 

[PuckChaser]

But the press release says that the CA has 360 and with these announced 190, the CA will have 550 it says.

The 89 + 35 announced last week in Turkey for Ukraine means that GDLS must have been on slow build to replace those items all along.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong that its an under estimate, but seeing as how we still have Bisons in Latvia, I have no idea where our 360 ACSVs are.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I'd be happy to be proven wrong that its an under estimate, but seeing as how we still have Bisons in Latvia, I have no idea where our 360 ACSVs are.

LAV 6 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Canadian Government announced that it would be diverting 39 LAV 6 ACSVs to the Ukrainian Armed Forces as military aid from the order of 360 vehicles it had previously made for the Canadian Army. Canadian officials stated that the vehicles along with spare parts would be delivered during the summer of 2022 and that the Army would still receive a total order of 360 vehicles in addition to the 39 vehicles given to Ukraine.

The remaining 50 of the first batch of 89 (39+50) were ordered by Canada from GDLS to be delivered as 'net new' builds for Ukraine. With that in mind, the 35 announced last week will most likely be another 'net new' build for GDLS addition to the 190 announced today. So that means that the GDLS built 85 specifically for Ukraine, plus replaced the first batch of 39 donated as part of the original order of 360 and now they have another 190 to build for us.

Total ACSV's to date: 360 + 89 + 35 + 190 = 674

 

[MJP]

Is that happening ? Because we cant get printed forms right now nor can we get a response from the vaunted center... Don't even get me started on critical spare parts.

This is a larger issue than "printed forms" as it involves almost anything that needs to be printed. This includes what people in this thread are thinking of when it comes to printed forms but more importantly things like field message pads, stickers, warning labels and many more.

Essentially 4-5 years ago the team that use to manage printed forms stopped funding and procuring anything (without telling anyone I might add). However, they retained the technical specifications for items. While I am grossly simplifying it, their thought is they L1s that use that form would become the procurer while they held the tech specs. That could work if every form had a pure L1 user but most are very pan-CAF. Since they have made this decision getting anything printed has been a nightmare. As an example it took 6+ months just to get FMP and 942 tags printed as it involved multiple back and forths plus procurement time.

It is a ridiculous situation that is still ongoing because no one has the wherewithal to make a decision.

Can that not be LPO'd to a local print shop?

Yes but see above most "forms" are forms in name only and many have complex tech specs.

It depends on the different individual commodities, they all have different Item Management IDs which dictate who is responsible for supplying them to the Supply System writ large.

A major problem we have continually been bringing up to D Navy Log actual is the growing trend of Item Managers, LCMMs and TAs in delegating their responsibilities down to unit levels. When it comes to filling the Supply System.

Which is fine until you discover your unit doesn't have the budget to support the CFSS and every unit is buying a different standard of item.

This is a much bigger issue than forms, it's a major problem in RCN sparing right now.

There is some very specific language in the SAM (3.2 para 2.7 & note) that was just clarified on this. Long story short they can't expect a base/unit to use their funds and if they authorize the purchase it should come with a SAF. Regardless, those should be the exception not the norm. I know it happens and on the CA side of the house when we (the L1) get these we pushed back hard and ensure it is not being an accepted practice.

I just filed my HHT claim with Sirva... The process was simple, well laid-out, and required exactly zero paper. If our relocation people can figure this stuff out, there is no reason the CAF can't, apart from dinosaurs making decisions based on their personal preferences.

It was a massive fight to get my occupation to switch to electronic weather records from the old paper ones we had been using since the mid-90's. What finally forced the organization to change was Environment Canada finally running out of the forms, and the cost to have them printed ourselves. I fear that if it happened under the current government, we would have just paid to print more rather than adapt to the modern world.

As above it isn't just a printed form like a claim that can easily be moved to electronic format. Hard to electronically declare something physical free from explosives. Note this is a recent real world recent example.

Mods this probably needs a spin off

 

[PrairieFella]

I'd be happy to be proven wrong that its an under estimate, but seeing as how we still have Bisons in Latvia, I have no idea where our 360 ACSVs are.

Theyre around. Ive crew commanded a few of them. The RWS is really nice. I like the upgrades.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This is a larger issue than "printed forms" as it involves almost anything that needs to be printed. This includes what people in this thread are thinking of when it comes to printed forms but more importantly things like field message pads, stickers, warning labels and many more.

Yup.

Essentially 4-5 years ago the team that use to manage printed forms stopped funding and procuring anything (without telling anyone I might add). However, they retained the technical specifications for items. While I am grossly simplifying it, their thought is they L1s that use that form would become the procurer while they held the tech specs. That could work if every form had a pure L1 user but most are very pan-CAF. Since they have made this decision getting anything printed has been a nightmare. As an example it took 6+ months just to get FMP and 942 tags printed as it involved multiple back and forths plus procurement time.

It is a ridiculous situation that is still ongoing because no one has the wherewithal to make a decision.

Sounds like Ottawa.

There is some very specific language in the SAM (3.2 para 2.7 & note) that was just clarified on this. Long story short they can't expect a base/unit to use their funds and if they authorize the purchase it should come with a SAF. Regardless, those should be the exception not the norm. I know it happens and on the CA side of the house when we (the L1) get these we pushed back hard and ensure it is not being an accepted practice.

Good to hear.