Canada Needs A Leader Like This!(Prime Minister John Howard - Australia )

[Celticgirl]

- And we expect no less of those who would come to Canada.  We have a duty to be welcoming.  We do not have a duty to be WEAK.  Priority must go to those immigrants and refugees who can most seemleesly and economically integrate into the Canadian mosaic.  We are NOT a rest area for foreign war criminals and thugs posing as refugees.

I agree completely.

The original rant, however, made no mention of war criminals or refugees.

 

[the 48th regulator]

However, I see people use this 'if you don't like it here then leave' sentiment as a way to subtly show their bigotry. That's just my opinion, and you don't have to agree.

Can you picture a born and bred Canadian female like myself living in Iran, for example? I would have to make a lot of lifestyle changes as well as give up some of the rights and freedoms I enjoy here in Canada. No thanks. I choose to believe that Canada is more evolved than many other parts of the world, and part of that evolution is the acceptance of other beliefs and customs.

You must admit the conundrum with your post is that you counter your argument with your own post.  Why is it you feel that Canada is culturally more advanced than that of Iran, considering that area of the world has been populated for a longer period than all of North America combined.

dileas

tess

 

[Infanteer]

We don't see eye-to-eye on this, obviously (and you don't seem to get what I'm saying), but that's okay. To each his/her own.

Sure - you never responded to my question.  Have a nice day.

 

[TCBF]

You must admit the conundrum with your post is that you counter your argument with your own post.  Why is it you feel that Canada is culturally more advanced than that of Iran, considering that area of the world has been populated for a longer period than all of North America combined.

dileas

tess

- Most countries who have either deliberately or through an accident of history remained a racial and cultural entity as well as a nationalistic one view our western countries as mongrel states composed of the detritus of many nations.  To them, we have watered down any cultural authority we once had and now have no historical RIGHT to assume the mantel of civilization - democracy or not.  They view our 'quaint' rights-based constitutions as national suicide pacts, and use them against us.

- The jury is still out on this one.

 

[davidk]

Celticgirl - if you were born here, you're not an immigrant. I may be the descendant of immigrants, but if you were to try to deport me, would you send an arm to Russia, a leg to Poland and my head to Britain? It just doesn't work...

 

[Celticgirl]

You must admit the conundrum with your post is that you counter your argument with your own post.  Why is it you feel that Canada is culturally more advanced than that of Iran, considering that area of the world has been populated for a longer period than all of North America combined.

dileas

tess

Hi Tess. I said more evolved, not more advanced. By that I mean that we are (I think) generally more accepting of other cultures and their beliefs and customs. An Iranian woman in Canada can wear her hijab here, or she can choose to forgo her custom and act on her right as a Canadian not to wear any type of headdress. A Canadian woman in Iran, however, must wear a hijab or something to cover her head. There's no choice in the matter. There is no acceptance of the Canadian woman's culture. This is where I see us as a more evolved nation, but not necessarily more advanced. Having lived in Asia, I would say some Asian countries are more advanced than we are in certain areas.

 

[Celticgirl]

Sure - you never responded to my question.  Have a nice day.

I'm sorry. Which question? (I thought they were all rhetorical.  )

 

[Celticgirl]

Celticgirl - if you were born here, you're not an immigrant. I may be the descendant of immigrants, but if you were to try to deport me, would you send an arm to Russia, a leg to Poland and my head to Britain? It just doesn't work...

You're right (you = plural). I should have said descendants of immigrants. I was trying to show the point that Canadian laws, customs, and what we think of as our 'culture' (which, honestly, is rather difficult to define) have changed over the years through many generations of immigrants. You are right, though. Those of us who were born here are not "immigrants". I retract that part of my comments.

Addendum: I should post controversial statements more often. I am popular today. (kidding)

 

[the 48th regulator]

Hi Tess. I said more evolved, not more advanced. By that I mean that we are (I think) generally more accepting of other cultures and their beliefs and customs. An Iranian woman in Canada can wear her hijab here, or she can choose to forgo her custom and act on her right as a Canadian not to wear any type of headdress. A Canadian woman in Iran, however, must wear a hijab or something to cover her head. There's no choice in the matter. There is no acceptance of the Canadian woman's culture. This is where I see us as a more evolved nation, but not necessarily more advanced. Having lived in Asia, I would say some Asian countries are more advanced than we are in certain areas.

So therefore, by your argument, we should accept and integrate the ideology that proscribes a woman from removing her Hijab and the penalties associated based on say, Iran's culture.

They do emigrate here from Iran.

dileas

tess

 

[TCBF]

... and what we think of as our 'culture' (which, honestly, is rather difficult to define) have changed over the years through many generations of immigrants....

- This raises an interesting point.  Since it is the purview of governments to plan for issues of national survival, would it not be in their best interests to strategically direct the flow of immigration/refugees to reinforce the successful cultures which allowed the flowering of democracy and freedom, and restrict the influence of those who have been developed/damaged by less enlightened cultures? 

 

[Infanteer]

I'm sorry. Which question? (I thought they were all rhetorical.  )

How about the ones in my first post with the question marks?

 

[Celticgirl]

So therefore, by your argument, we should accept and integrate the ideology that proscribes a woman from removing her Hijab and the penalties associated based on say, Iran's culture.

They do emigrate here from Iran.

dileas

tess

Oh my goodness, no. That is not at all what I am saying. Did you get that from my post? I must not be as articulate as I had thought.    I am trying to say that it is a good thing that Canada accepts the cultural differences of its immigrants (insofar as these differences don't infringe on the rights of other Canadians, as my hijab example was intended to demonstrate). We should not adopt Iran's ideology.

Perhaps I should raise my white flag now and bow out of this thread. I don't think I am making myself understood.  ???

 

[TCBF]

...Perhaps I should raise my white flag now and bow out of this thread. I don't think I am making myself understood.  ???

- Your doing fine.  We're a tough audience.

 

 

[sgf]

Nobodies stating to stop changing or evolving,but immigrants come to this country for it's advantages. To ask us to modify our standards to accomodate them is ridiculous. If immigrants want us to change Canada into a mirror image of where they came from then maybe they should return there. I liken it to, if I walk into your house and start telling you how to run your house, what foods to eat, how to worship (or not) you would quickly toss my *** out the front door. It's the same thing just on a larger scale.

I am curious, how have immigrants asked us to change Canada?

 

[davidk]

- This raises an interesting point.  Since it is the purview of governments to plan for issues of national survival, would it not be in their best interests to strategically direct the flow of immigration/refugees to reinforce the successful cultures which allowed the flowering of democracy and freedom, and restrict the influence of those who have been developed/damaged by less enlightened cultures? 

TCBF, I think that's a very dangerous suggestion. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy and freedom, but restricting immigration from places that don't share our values means that individuals trying to escape repressive, authoritarian rule would not be welcome. Just because lots of Iranians living in Iran think women should wear a Hijab doesn't mean that most Iranians coming to Canada share that view.

 

[TCBF]

- Agreed, and those who come from places like that and agree with us make superb Canadians.  My point is that it we should control who we draw from.  The quotas should be put back to allow immigration of the easily assimilated.  Otherwise, we are merely creating a large unassimilated urban underclass of young offenders.  Truly, a lost generation.  (Hint: I live in Edmonton).

 

[the 48th regulator]

I am curious, how have immigrants asked us to change Canada?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126472943217_26/?hub=TopStories

The fundamental laws.

dileas

tess

 

[TCBF]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1126472943217_26/?hub=TopStories

The fundamental laws.

dileas

tess

- Maybe they have a point.  I am not entirely unsympathetic to their cause. 

 

[davidk]

- Agreed, and those who come from places like that and agree with us make superb Canadians.  My point is that it we should control who we draw from.  The quotas should be put back to allow immigration of the easily assimilated.  Otherwise, we are merely creating a large unassimilated urban underclass of young offenders.  Truly, a lost generation.  (Hint: I live in Edmonton).

But wouldn't doing so turn the immigration process into even more of a complicated mess? I can see screening applicants going two ways - first, the way the TSA deals with carry-on luggage: going way overboard on what's allowed (i.e. turned away for being a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of someone on some watch list) or, the second, far more likely way - a 30 page questionnaire filled with inquiries like "Do you approve of democracy? []Yes/[]No" that's fed into a machine which evaluates how much you conform to set parameters.

In general, I don't like the idea of quotas. Granted the current immigration system could use an overhaul, but placing restrictions on immigration based on the likelihood of assimilation seems a bit far-fetched. There have been many groups that didn't easily assimilate to Canada that haven't caused problems - look at the Jews of Montreal at the end of the 19th- to the middle of the 20th century. They kept to themselves, had their own religious practices, dietary restrictions, cultural institutions, views on government etc. Did they cause problems? No. They brought us smoked meat and bagels, and we are grateful.

(Edit: Just so everyone knows I'm not oversimplifying the contributions made by Jews to Canadian society, I'm well aware that the above two examples are among the more trivial ones, however it's nearly dinner time and I'm hungry  )

 

[TCBF]

- What if I told you that it was easier for a Mandarin speaking Chinese rice farmer to get into Canada as an immigrant than an English speaking rig worker from Oklahoma, would you think the system neads rebalancing?

- Right now we HAVE restrictions: On the countries that BUILT Canada to start with!