Canada/US Border Integrity Thread

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So this is a change - for the worst - by the Coast Guard, and it fits right in to the current narrative (probably correct) that many American officers serving in US Homeland security feel emboldened by the current US administration to let their "total-prick" side take over in circumstances that don't require it.

Or, like in 99% of cases, the person started acting like an entitled arsehole and then "found out".

 

[The Bread Guy]

Or, like in 99% of cases, the person started acting like an entitled arsehole and then "found out".

Good point. There's often an element of, "Honest, Warrant - we were just sitting in the bar, having a couple of beers, when they all jumped us and beat the crap out of us" feel to some stories, so we'll never know the WHOLE story.

 

[FSTO]

So im taking from this that in this day and age, we should be investing in the demarcation of our border waters to prevent prices from getting overzealous.

Lake Metigoshe is a less friendly venue than in the Pre-Trump era.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Lake Metigoshe is a less friendly venue than in the Pre-Trump era.

Suspect the Boundary Waters in the 807 area code may be getting more that way, too.

 

[Haggis]

So im taking from this that in this day and age, we should be investing in the demarcation of our border waters to prevent prices from getting overzealous.

Most of the CA/US land border is poorly marked between ports of entry, especially out west. The US Border Patrol has sensors and cameras on their side, but not the entire stretch.

 

[CBH99]

Or, like in 99% of cases, the person started acting like an entitled arsehole and then "found out".

I suspect there is a bit of both elements at play...

 

[lenaitch]

Not a sailor and never policed a boundary area but I always thought that you could sail on the US side of international waters without reporting so long as you didn't land or anchor. It seems the original allegation was fishing but they ICE got involved.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not a sailor and never policed a boundary area but I always thought that you could sail on the US side of international waters without reporting so long as you didn't land or anchor. It seems the original allegation was fishing but they ICE got involved.

We'll start with terminology: there are no "side of international waters" involved here. International waters are just that: international. Thus no one has jurisdiction over anyone in international waters other than over their own flagged ships.

What you do have between Canada and the USA in the great lakes, part of the St Lawrence River and on some other smaller waterways (such as Champlain Lake) are waters that are either internal or territorial to Canada or the US, on either side of agreed lines that make up the international border.

The general rule is that if you are transiting territorial waters (i. the Great Lakes - other than Michigan which is internal to the US - or the St Lawrence river) to get from a point in Canada to another point in Canada or a point in the US to another point in the US without stopping, then you need not report to customs/border services of either country. However, and regardless, at any given time you are either in Canadian or in American waters, in which case you are subject to all the laws and rules of that country and are answerable to the proper law enforcement authorities of the country you are in.

The US Coast Guard does law enforcement in US waters - generally, that does not include border protection/customs work, which is usually done by border patrol. In the case at hand, the allegation was that the USCG involvement arose from an infraction to fishing laws and regulations, which would appropriately fall under their jurisdiction.

 

[Czech_pivo]

We'll start with terminology: there are no "side of international waters" involved here. International waters are just that: international. Thus no one has jurisdiction over anyone in international waters other than over their own flagged ships.

What you do have between Canada and the USA in the great lakes, part of the St Lawrence River and on some other smaller waterways (such as Champlain Lake) are waters that are either internal or territorial to Canada or the US, on either side of agreed lines that make up the international border.

The general rule is that if you are transiting territorial waters (i. the Great Lakes - other than Michigan which is internal to the US - or the St Lawrence river) to get from a point in Canada to another point in Canada or a point in the US to another point in the US without stopping, then you need not report to customs/border services of either country. However, and regardless, at any given time you are either in Canadian or in American waters, in which case you are subject to all the laws and rules of that country and are answerable to the proper law enforcement authorities of the country you are in.

The US Coast Guard does law enforcement in US waters - generally, that does not include border protection/customs work, which is usually done by border patrol. In the case at hand, the allegation was that the USCG involvement arose from an infraction to fishing laws and regulations, which would appropriately fall under their jurisdiction.

Back when I lived in Windsor, we used to get an ‘I68’ form from US customs, like in the early to mid 90s, and that form would allow us as a CDN boater to go into US waters and in to a US marina or restaurant for dinner with no issues whatsoever. If US Border Patrol (which never happen in the 3yrs I had a I68), stopped you, you showed them your I68 and that was it, nothing else, no other ID at all. Back then certainly no passport.
Life was simpler then and we were ‘trusted a lot more’ by them.

 

[Haggis]

I lean towards assuming USCG had good navigational equipment… probably better than the guy fishing. The Coasties tend not to be belligerent twits.

The QC village noted in the article, Venise-en-Québec, is 7 - 8 ish km from the border by water, not 15 as stated. That's a pretty big navigational error on anyone's part on inland waters.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Back when I lived in Windsor, we used to get an ‘I68’ form from US customs, like in the early to mid 90s, and that form would allow us as a CDN boater to go into US waters and in to a US marina or restaurant for dinner with no issues whatsoever. If US Border Patrol (which never happen in the 3yrs I had a I68), stopped you, you showed them your I68 and that was it, nothing else, no other ID at all. Back then certainly no passport.
Life was simpler then and we were ‘trusted a lot more’ by them.

Canadian Border Boat Landing (I-68) Program

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

 

[Haggis]

Canadian Border Boat Landing (I-68) Program

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

Here's our version. It's somewhat less onerous.

Reporting requirements for private boat operators

Travellers - Reporting requirements for private boat operators

www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca

 

[Czech_pivo]

Canadian Border Boat Landing (I-68) Program

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

Thinking back we did have to call a number when we ‘landed’ at the US marina or restaurant that we’d be going to and tell them. I had forgotten about that part as I never did the calling, my friend who owned the boat would do it. I was well before cell phones so he’d have to ask the restaurant to use their phone to call it in.