Canada's Muslims - Environics Poll

[GAP]

Canada's Muslims, an international comparison
Last Updated Feb. 13, 2007 CBC News
Article Link

Are we talking past each other? A new poll carried out in conjunction with the CBC suggests just that as it seeks to plumb the attitudes of Canadian Muslims and their fellow citizens toward each other.

Take for example the whole issue of fitting in. The survey by Environics Research Group asks respondents if they feel Muslims coming to Canada want to adopt Canadian customs or remain distinct from the larger society.

For non-Muslim Canadians, 57 per cent feel Muslims want to remain distinct from everyone else — but only 23 per cent of Muslim Canadians feel that way: A full 55 per cent say they want to fit in.

Related story: Glad to be Canadian, Muslims say
How exact is that finding? It's hard to say. The Environics poll queries 2,045 members of the general public and 500 Muslim Canadians and has an accuracy in the smaller sample of 4.4 percentage points either way, 19 times out of 20.

It should probably also be seen alongside a Pew Global Attitudes poll in early 2005. The respected American research centre found 60 per cent of Muslims here saw themselves as distinct from the general Canadian population. If both surveys are right, that would represent a remarkable sea change in attitudes in the space of a couple of years.

Still, clear that away — along with some other misconceptions Canadians have about their Muslim compatriots — and a remarkably different portrait appears of Canada's Muslim population.

Compared to their counterparts in the U.K., Germany, France and Spain, who were polled on a handful of similar issues by the Pew Research Centre, Canadian Muslims appear to be the most contented, moderate and, well, Canadian in the developed world.
More on link

 

[observor 69]

Well written article on the same theme. For those of us who live in the GTA we deal with the challenge of learning to adapt to each other on a daily basis.

http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070327/COIBBI27/Columnists/columnists/columnistsNational/9/9/9/

Of rednecks and the rural-urban solitudes



By JOHN IBBITSON 

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 – Page A16



If there's one thing that yesterday's Quebec election proved, it's that intolerance remains a force in Canadian politics. To their everlasting disgrace, too many urban intellectuals have chosen to reinforce it.

In small-town Ontario, right up until the 1960s, some citizens refused to vote for a Catholic. These Anglo-Saxon Protestants were good people, by and large: God-fearing, neighbour-loving, honest and charitable.

But their ancestors had emigrated to Canada from the British Isles, and they had inherited from those ancestors a reflexive dislike of Catholics in general and Irish Catholics in particular. The Irish were called dogans and those from Southern or Eastern Europe were wops or polacks or bohunks. None of them, the WASPs were convinced, could be trusted with public office, because Catholics were all in thrall to the Pope.

Those good old boys and girls are all dead now, and anti-Catholic sentiment has disappeared from Ontario, to the best of this writer's knowledge. Most readers have probably never even heard the words dogan or bohunk before. Things get better.

But as the Quebec election has demonstrated, Canada's rural regions continue to harbour obnoxious attitudes. Although Mario Dumont is not half so objectionable as Jean-Marie Le Pen, the Action Démocratique du Québec is tapping the same vein of intolerance in Quebec that the National Front courts in France.

Mr. Dumont has censured candidates in his party who disparage Jews, Muslims and homosexuals, but his surge in popularity in part stems from his stand on the "reasonable accommodation" debate. Quebec society, Mr. Dumont complains, has gone too far in placating the demands of immigrants, who should adapt to Quebec culture rather than expect Quebeckers to adapt to them.

Because Quebec is a nationalist society, and because the oxygen of nationalism is suspicion of the Other, this sort of thing plays well, especially in the old-stock communities outside Montreal.

But English Canada is not immune to this bilge. In the very best salons of Toronto and Vancouver, as well as on main-street Saskatchewan, anti-immigrant diatribes are increasingly common. Too many Muslim and Sikh Canadians aren't properly integrating into Canadian society, goes the complaint. Their religious attitudes demean women and disparage our democratic traditions. You find this argument coming from hijab-hating feminists as much as rednecks, from the left as much as from the right.

But wherever it comes from, substitute "Catholic" for "Muslim" and we're right back to small-town Ontario two generations ago.

So, on this day, when atavistic Quebeckers have bolstered the fortunes of a party of intolerance -- though we should also recognize that some of those votes are simply a reaction against the old elite accommodation -- let's remind ourselves of a few things.

First, Canada has a Constitution, including a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and a body of common and statutory law rooted in British and French political, cultural and legal traditions. These traditions are so robust that they are on the cusp of becoming universal norms. To suggest they are threatened in this country by a tiny minority of immigrants is ludicrous.

Second, about 250,000 immigrants arrive here every year. The places where they settle are dynamic and prosperous. The places they avoid are dying.

Third, opinion leaders who single out a small group of immigrants, accusing them of refusing to fit in, condemning their culture, and ostracizing them from the mainstream, are nothing but bullies and bigots who contribute to the very radicalization they condemn.

So, to all the ADQ backbenchers and small-town mayors who disparage the latest batch of new arrivals, this message: Go ahead. You and your prejudices will fade away, and your towns will disappear, unless you can find a way to attract the very people you love to denigrate. And to the urban feminist who echoes their sentiments: For the love of Mike, woman, look who you're consorting with.

[email protected]

 

[FascistLibertarian]

The point system works
Canada gets amazing immigrants
Muslisms are Canadian, I do hope all Canadians would think of themsleves as Canadians first but its up to ever individual canadian to make that choice.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have met Muslims that want to fit in, and they are generally the less devout kind, the more devout seem to see Canada as a safe place where they can do there own thing and will cherry pick which rights they want. They get pissed when they find out the same rights and freedoms that applies to them, also applies to their wives and daughters.  :

 

[Hollywog]

I've also met ones that are nice and want to fit in but,

Fully 12% of Muslim Canadians support beheading the Prime Minister and blowing up Parliament and the CBC,

http://no-libs.com/?p=1521

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Sent to the author

I just read your article and had to say something. I married a Malay woman who happens to be Muslim. Her family for the most part are devout Muslims and this has allowed me to see both sides of the story.

When we got married in Malaysia, I had to by law convert to Islam, as it would be an offense for me to be in “close proximity” to her without being married, also if I hadn’t converted and we were in Malaysia we could be arrested and our daughter seized by the state! Also a good chunk of her family would have disowned her. For the record I make a lousy Muslim, enjoying beer, pork and dogs. My wife also decided that she wanted her daughter to grow up here where her life would not be limited by her gender and religion. My wife also finds that her ability to live life as herself is much easier here. (She is a lawyer by trade)

While I find the average Muslin generous and kind, I also find them in general to be quite blinkered and narrow minded. I have had Muslims here tell me that:

My wife should not be allowed out of the house alone
That she should not eat with me
That Sunni’s cannot eat at Iranian owned places as they are not proper Muslims
That my wife should cover herself
That my daughter can not have a choice about her beliefs
Etc,etc

Some of the people that tell me these things are Professionals including doctors and lawyers, it’s quite amazing. I also met Muslims that decided to leave here because they didn’t realize that the freedoms they wanted would also apply to their spouse and daughter!

I won’t bother going into lengths about the conspiracy theories I hear about the Jews running the world, causing 9/11 (they will tell me it was the Jews who did it and ½ hr later tell how Bin Laden is a hero for organizing the attack, never knew he was a Jewish lackey….)

One of my biggest frustrations with the “moderate Muslim” is their silence. They will avoid talking about issues so as not to make waves in the community, Islam as currently preached does not encourage critical thinking. Granted many of these people grew up in countries where sticking you head up means losing it, but they also fear being banished from their community and mosque if they do speak about tolerance and understanding. On top of this cultural conditioning, there are two major events going in Islam. The ongoing Sunni-Shiite struggle for dominance and attempted (and so far successful) take over and radicalization of the Sunni world by hard-line Whahabbist. For example looking at my wife’s family albums, almost none of the Muslims there back in the 60-70”s wore headscarf and most of the women wore their sarongs. Now if a Muslim woman was to go out without a scarf she would be hassled or detained by the Vice patrols as a woman of low morals. This is the direct result of the Whahabbi’s using oil money to build mosques around the world in an attempt to spread their influence. There is an active element of these types here that use a variety of tactics to keep the moderates in line and to push for imposing of Shaira law in Western countries as a tool to suppress and control the local Muslim populations. Also did you know that almost every Muslim charity discriminates based on religion? The concept of donating help to a Jew, Christian or Hindu is quite foreign to them. Frankly I am tired of listening to Muslims whine about how bad they are treated. If they don’t like it, then they should grab back the reigns of their religion and publicly divorce themselves from the insane act perpetrated in it’s name. (To be fair this is slowly starting to happen) 

Canada like to talk about Multi-culturallism but if the various cultures wish to live in peace here, then Canadian culture must remain supreme. Our culture and it’s rules governing the conduct of people acts as a binding agent in which other cultures can use as a guide to which part of their culture add to the mix and which are not acceptable. If we are not clear on what is acceptable how can we blame people who come here and carry out unacceptable acts? There is nothing wrong about stating what is acceptable in our society and demanding that people accept that as a condition of living here. You can bet that every country where our immigrants come from are very clear on what you can and can’t do.

By the way the term rednecks is discriminatory and is in the same league as nigger, wetback, wog and other degrading names. You have tarred yourself with the same brush.

 

[MikeM]

Well said Colin, well said!

 

[Brad Sallows]

AFAICT, those appalling anglos and Catholics have not only adopted and practice the humane values most Canadians claim to cherish, but many of the streams of thought leading to those values originated among the anglos and Catholics.  Pointing out the inhumanity of their past is such a bullsh!t game.  They resolved many of their deficiencies.  Others are welcome to become part of the solutions rather than the problems.

 

[Kirkhill]

Agreed Mike.  Well said Colin.  And well said to Brad as well.

 

[Operationblack]

Sent to the author

I just read your article and had to say something. I married a Malay woman who happens to be Muslim. Her family for the most part are devout Muslims and this has allowed me to see both sides of the story.

When we got married in Malaysia, I had to by law convert to Islam, as it would be an offense for me to be in “close proximity” to her without being married, also if I hadn’t converted and we were in Malaysia we could be arrested and our daughter seized by the state! Also a good chunk of her family would have disowned her. For the record I make a lousy Muslim, enjoying beer, pork and dogs. My wife also decided that she wanted her daughter to grow up here where her life would not be limited by her gender and religion. My wife also finds that her ability to live life as herself is much easier here. (She is a lawyer by trade)

While I find the average Muslin generous and kind, I also find them in general to be quite blinkered and narrow minded. I have had Muslims here tell me that:

My wife should not be allowed out of the house alone
That she should not eat with me
That Sunni’s cannot eat at Iranian owned places as they are not proper Muslims
That my wife should cover herself
That my daughter can not have a choice about her beliefs
Etc,etc

Some of the people that tell me these things are Professionals including doctors and lawyers, it’s quite amazing. I also met Muslims that decided to leave here because they didn’t realize that the freedoms they wanted would also apply to their spouse and daughter!

I won’t bother going into lengths about the conspiracy theories I hear about the Jews running the world, causing 9/11 (they will tell me it was the Jews who did it and ½ hr later tell how Bin Laden is a hero for organizing the attack, never knew he was a Jewish lackey….)

One of my biggest frustrations with the “moderate Muslim” is their silence. They will avoid talking about issues so as not to make waves in the community, Islam as currently preached does not encourage critical thinking. Granted many of these people grew up in countries where sticking you head up means losing it, but they also fear being banished from their community and mosque if they do speak about tolerance and understanding. On top of this cultural conditioning, there are two major events going in Islam. The ongoing Sunni-Shiite struggle for dominance and attempted (and so far successful) take over and radicalization of the Sunni world by hard-line Whahabbist. For example looking at my wife’s family albums, almost none of the Muslims there back in the 60-70”s wore headscarf and most of the women wore their sarongs. Now if a Muslim woman was to go out without a scarf she would be hassled or detained by the Vice patrols as a woman of low morals. This is the direct result of the Whahabbi’s using oil money to build mosques around the world in an attempt to spread their influence. There is an active element of these types here that use a variety of tactics to keep the moderates in line and to push for imposing of Shaira law in Western countries as a tool to suppress and control the local Muslim populations. Also did you know that almost every Muslim charity discriminates based on religion? The concept of donating help to a Jew, Christian or Hindu is quite foreign to them. Frankly I am tired of listening to Muslims whine about how bad they are treated. If they don’t like it, then they should grab back the reigns of their religion and publicly divorce themselves from the insane act perpetrated in it’s name. (To be fair this is slowly starting to happen) 

Canada like to talk about Multi-culturallism but if the various cultures wish to live in peace here, then Canadian culture must remain supreme. Our culture and it’s rules governing the conduct of people acts as a binding agent in which other cultures can use as a guide to which part of their culture add to the mix and which are not acceptable. If we are not clear on what is acceptable how can we blame people who come here and carry out unacceptable acts? There is nothing wrong about stating what is acceptable in our society and demanding that people accept that as a condition of living here. You can bet that every country where our immigrants come from are very clear on what you can and can’t do.

By the way the term rednecks is discriminatory and is in the same league as person, wetback, wog and other degrading names. You have tarred yourself with the same brush.

Exactly why I will be marrying another Italian Catholic.

 

[twistedcables]

Colin - you are WAY off to say Muslims discriminate in charity.  The religion does not teach this stuff at all.  If Muslims dont practice its their fault not teh religion - charity is one of the 5 pillars of the faith.

Also to say that Muslims dont realize rights applying to their wives and daughters is just plain silly to suggest.  Have you looked at a university campus these days?  See all the hijabs? well, that should tell you.

Dont assume anything until you've met - and even then it should always be on a case by case basis.

I can tell you this much: MOST Muslims just wanna live like everyone else and its tough when people assume you to be insincere.

Anyway - I do agree though that Muslims are not doing enough to be vocal on their positions - but then again, I dont blame them for being hesitant due to fear of arrest or prosecution.  Freedom of religion not freedom of religious extremism. :-\

 

[DBA]

Colin - you are WAY off to say Muslims discriminate in charity.  The religion does not teach this stuff at all.  If Muslims dont practice its their fault not teh religion - charity is one of the 5 pillars of the faith.

Most schools of Islamic scholarship say Kafir (non-believers) should not be given money from the Zakat (charity tax) which is one of the five pillars of faith. This is in marked contrast to the western concept of charity being open to all only based only on need. What individual Muslims do varies a lot but this way of allocating Zakat is widespread and even applies to services provided by charities. That is another contrast with a lot of Western charities which while belonging to a given faith provide services without discrimination to those in need of other faiths.

 

[muskrat89]

Dont assume anything until you've met

          ???

Did you even read his post?

I married a Malay woman who happens to be Muslim. Her family for the most part are devout Muslims and this has allowed me to see both sides of the story.

When we got married in Malaysia, I had to by law convert to Islam,

 

[CountDC]

          ???

Did you even read his post?

beat me to it - was wondering the same thing.

 

[Danjanou]

Colin - you are WAY off to say Muslims discriminate in charity.  The religion does not teach this stuff at all.  If Muslims dont practice its their fault not teh religion - charity is one of the 5 pillars of the faith.

Also to say that Muslims dont realize rights applying to their wives and daughters is just plain silly to suggest.  Have you looked at a university campus these days?  See all the hijabs? well, that should tell you.

Dont assume anything until you've met - and even then it should always be on a case by case basis.

I can tell you this much: MOST Muslims just wanna live like everyone else and its tough when people assume you to be insincere.

Anyway - I do agree though that Muslims are not doing enough to be vocal on their positions - but then again, I dont blame them for being hesitant due to fear of arrest or prosecution.  Freedom of religion not freedom of religious extremism. :-\

Hmm a guy I've known since highschool and a long time member of the site or someone who just showed up and posts once, who to believe? Say goodnight troll.

BTW Colin well said old friend.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most schools of Islamic scholarship say Kafir (non-believers) should not be given money from the Zakat (charity tax) which is one of the five pillars of faith. This is in marked contrast to the western concept of charity being open to all only based only on need. What individual Muslims do varies a lot but this way of allocating Zakat is widespread and even applies to services provided by charities. That is another contrast with a lot of Western charities which while belonging to a given faith provide services without discrimination to those in need of other faiths.

bingo! Muslims are very giving to each other, but not so much to non-believers, there are Muslims and splinter groups that are very caring and kind, but they are the minority. the average Muslim has been trained from birth to donate to the Mosque, other muslims, not to the Sally Ann. Muslims may give food directly to poor muslims in lieu of a percentage to the mosque.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

My only comment on Muslim charity is that when the Tsunami hit Muslim parts of Indonesia and Thailand, it was the West and lots of Christians (I'm an agnostic for the record) who stepped up to donate the most while the Gulf States did a whole lot of nothing....and yet these guys do find money to fund Hamas and Hezbollah.  In short, by my definition most Muslim charity is in fact "funding of expansionism" as opposed to donating for the purpose of promoting the altruistic well-being of others, and that I find deeply disappointing.


Matthew. 

 

[1feral1]

My only comment on Muslim charity is that when the Tsunami hit Muslim parts of Indonesia and Thailand, it was the West and lots of Christians (I'm an agnostic for the record) who stepped up to donate the most while the Gulf States did a whole lot of nothing....and yet these guys do find money to fund Hamas and Hezbollah.  In short, by my definition most Muslim charity is in fact "funding of expansionism" as opposed to donating for the purpose of promoting the altruistic well-being of others, and that I find deeply disappointing.


Matthew.   

Happy members and dear guests,

The Australian government donated 1 billion $, and I got suckered in for $200. Never again.


Happy days,


OWDU

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My only comment on Muslim charity is that when the Tsunami hit Muslim parts of Indonesia and Thailand, it was the West and lots of Christians (I'm an agnostic for the record) who stepped up to donate the most while the Gulf States did a whole lot of nothing....and yet these guys do find money to fund Hamas and Hezbollah.  In short, by my definition most Muslim charity is in fact "funding of expansionism" as opposed to donating for the purpose of promoting the altruistic well-being of others, and that I find deeply disappointing.


Matthew.   

My sister inlaw (Muslim and Feminist activist, now sadly deceased) was supposed to be in Aceh when it hit, but missed it because she was sick, she went there to help out, even though she is no fan of the US military, she admitted to me that the US Navy was the only functioning outfit and did a huge amount to help people. Her opinion of most of the NGO's and their performance there is not fit to print here.