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Canada's tanks


Slovakia is shortlisting the CV90120 and passing on the K2 and Leo 2A8.
It is half the price.
Lower running costs.
Uses a Slovakian designed autoloader.
Is a stablemate to the CV9035 that is being built in Slovakia by the company that builds the CV90120 autoloader.

I think the Turkish offer has an uphill climb.
 
Interesting article in this summer's edition of 'Canadian Army Today' magazine on the centralization of the tank force in Edmonton:
Tank Centralization: A bridge to the Army’s future armoured capability | Canadian Army Today

The last paragraphs look forward to ongoing and possible future upgrades. It will be interesting to see how plans evolve in the upcoming months.


Sidebar: Future Upgrades

What comes next for armoured cavalry? The 2024 defence policy update acknowledged that “main battle tanks continue to have a decisive effect on the modern battlefield” and committed to “explore options for upgrading or replacing our tank and light armoured vehicle fleets.”

The Army’s current Leopard 2 fleet includes 34 Leopard 2A4 tanks for training, 20 upgraded Leopard 2A4M tanks, 20 Leopard 2A6M tanks (some undergoing conversion to the 2A6M C2 variant), plus supporting armored engineering and recovery vehicles. Except for maintenance training vehicles, these are being consolidated in Edmonton under the tank centralization initiative.

There is a major near-term $76 million conversion of Leopard 2A6M tanks to the 2A6M C2 CAN configuration currently underway at FFG Canada’s Bathurst facility. The project addresses obsolescence issues with analog technology, ensuring platform viability until 2035.

For a service life extension beyond 2035, significant upgrades would be necessary, potentially costing over $620 million. These could include improved protection against modern anti-tank weapons, enhanced surveillance capabilities, upgraded firepower, and mobility improvements. The Heavy Direct Fire Modernization project, previously known as Tank Life Extension, is expected to reach the definition phase of defence procurement sometime after 2028, suggesting major decisions will need to be made within the next three to five years.

NATO interoperability will be a key factor as the Army seeks to align its future fleet with NATO partners, ensuring seamless integration during combined operations. Any shift away from the Leopard 2 platform would need to carefully consider interoperability implications.
 
Noah with a rumour on refurbushing our Leos to some new uniform? standard

• Our first Joint Procurement with the Euros might not be what you think. While a true Tank replacement is still not planned for the next decade, there are talks of a joint procurement with Germany to modernize and expand the existing Leopard II fleet.

The plan would see up to 103 Leopards modernized to, as far as I know, 2A8 standard. That would be a mix of our existing hulls and older hulls from a partner like Germany. This would technically not be an acquisition, but a modernization. Sneaky wording and such.

Remember that $5 billion dollar modernization we discussed a few months ago? Apparently this is the reason the budget was so high. This would also get the fleet out to the 2035 timeline, when a true replacement will be explored. Im still working on getting more details.


 
Noah with a rumour on refurbushing our Leos to some new uniform? standard

• Our first Joint Procurement with the Euros might not be what you think. While a true Tank replacement is still not planned for the next decade, there are talks of a joint procurement with Germany to modernize and expand the existing Leopard II fleet.

The plan would see up to 103 Leopards modernized to, as far as I know, 2A8 standard. That would be a mix of our existing hulls and older hulls from a partner like Germany. This would technically not be an acquisition, but a modernization. Sneaky wording and such.

Remember that $5 billion dollar modernization we discussed a few months ago? Apparently this is the reason the budget was so high. This would also get the fleet out to the 2035 timeline, when a true replacement will be explored. Im still working on getting more details.


Brutal.
 
Poland got K2 PLs for a fair bit less. I wonder what the production line for those is like now.
The K2 would be the perfect tank for Canada. It would allow us to donate all of our tired Leopard hulls to the Ukrainians, is significantly lighter and comes with some super cool next-gen tech like the suspension system and smart rounds. Oh well. Some tanks is better than no tanks. No shot we see a single 2A8 by 2032 though. Those lines are maxxed atm.
 
Polands Abrams purchases:
  • First batch: $4.75 billion USD for 250 plus training, logistics, technical support and ammunition, M1A2 SepV3
  • Second Batch: $1.6 Billion for 116 M1A1s, to be upgraded later

K2s:
First Batch: $12.4 billion for 180 K2s, plus 212 K9s and 48 FA-50s, and the myriad other elements needed to bring them into service and support. Possibly $3.4 billion just for the tanks
Second Batch: 180 (plus 81 support vehicles) for $6.5 billion, about a third to be produced locally.

I've seen some other numbers in different articles for K2 costs, but I'm not sure if they were before things were finalized or trying to break out part of the first batch (seen $3.4 billion come up). The second batch is more expensive than the Abrams, but they'll also be the first K2PL variants and first locally built as part of the larger framework for 1,000 K2s, so I imagine there's a bunch of those development and start up costs for the production included in those figures.

Currency conversion also plays a role, as our $5 billion CAD would be about $3.56 billion USD. I'll do conversion to CAD below per unit.

Polish Abrams (all costs included, logistics, ammo, etc): about $26.68 million per, refurbished US stock
Polish K2 (first batch, would also include the various costs to bring it into service): also about $26.68 million per but these are new build
Second batch gets wonky due to support vehicles, R&D and local production

Canadian Leo 2A8 (supposedly): $48.5 million
Dutch Leo 2A8: $33.5 million
Czech Leo 2A8: $52 million
German Leo 2A8: $44.9 million

Procurement costs are always a mess based on what's included, if the Dutch are already comfortable with existing ammo stocks, training and support equipment (or are using German resources for support?) than they'll have a lower cost. Germany is probably paying off some of the development cost in it's initial purchase. Our modernization might include expanded or refurbished facilities, ammo bunkers, simulators, etc, and including additional costs other countries wouldn't. Regardless, I'm curious what Poland's going to end up spending on the remaining 6-700 K2s it wants once local production is up. I think they have a right idea, but even looking at going to 3.5% of GDP on defence our modernization plans are only talking about 2 x heavy units as far as I'm aware, but I rather like the idea of sustained production of 1,000 heavy platforms over a couple decades, for a robust pre-deployed stock, full regiments, training fleet for the school, reserve units with centralized training fleets, and building up a robust war stock (and maybe selling some used as needed). A three way partnership between Korea, Canada, and Poland for K2/K9...K21? for sustained production, war stock, economy of scale, and supply chain redundancy.

EDIT: South Korea's batch 3 of 54 tanks cost them 553 billion won, or about $542 million Canadian, roughly $10 million per which appears to be purely just for the tanks. That was in 2020 for 2023 delivery.
 
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This would also get the fleet out to the 2035 timeline, when a true replacement will be explored.
Surely we are not going to wait till 2035 to even consider a replacement tank?

IMHO, probably, as that is the Cdn way of procurement.
 
$48 million per. Might not be much left of our Leo2s left
34 2A4
20 2A4M
20 2A6M
11 ARV
18 AEV
= 103 hulls
The ARV's, AEV's, bridgelayers etc wouldn't be part of this, as there is no A8 ARV for example. So this would be purely gun tanks, I've heard rumors they wanted to acquire a few extra hulls from Rheinmetal stocks to replace those we donated to ukraine, I imagine if thats true, that might be rolled into this cost as well.
 
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