Canada's tanks

[FJAG]

Yet more threats to the MBT.

Swarmbotics AI develops robotic tank killers

Swarmbotics AI, a robotics developer, is pitching a new class of ground-based, modular unmanned systems that operate in coordinated swarms and carry anti-tank effects, the company says. The firm confirmed that its antitank variant is called FireAnt, a lightweight, attritable

defence-blog.com

Mines, artillery (gun and rocket), aircraft, ATGMs, enemy AFVs, UAVs and now UGV swarms...the challenges to maintaining mobility on the battlefield seem to be increasing faster than the counters.

Okay. I don't want to sound like a smart ass, because I really like this idea, but I've probably watched way too many episodes of "BattleBots."

The one thing that immediately stood out to me is that these things are fairly high which makes them top heavy and prone to tipping over in rough terrain. Everyone who watches "BattleBots" knows that these little robots need a simple self-righting devices so when they do tip over or flip, they can autonomously right themselves back onto their wheels.

 

[GR66]

Okay. I don't want to sound like a smart ass, because I really like this idea, but I've probably watched way too many episodes of "BattleBots."

The one thing that immediately stood out to me is that these things are fairly high which makes them top heavy and prone to tipping over in rough terrain. Everyone who watches "BattleBots" knows that these little robots need a simple self-righting devices so when they do tip over or flip, they can autonomously right themselves back onto their wheels.

I'm picturing a cheap UGV that is low to the ground (so difficult to both detect and target) with an AT mine mounted on top. When the UGV strikes its target the platform holding the mine swings up like a catapult striking the tank causing a M-Kill.

 

[KevinB]

I agree. The German decision to buy a large number of Sky Ranger 30s intrigues me. As does the Ukrainian interest in Gepard-like vehicles and the absence of Gepards on the Oryx list. They seem to be hard kills.

The Gepard concept was always intriguing to me - as the Germans opted for a Leo 1 chassis as opposed to the Marder to that role - whereas the American option was the M163 Vulcan Air Defense System with the M61 Vulcan 20mm on a M113, and then the M-SHORAD Stryker.
The question here for the ABCT's seem to be waiting on the decision on the XM-30 MICV as to if it, or the APMV will be the Point Defense AD System for Armored Brigade, as there has been zero interest in making an Abrams PDAD even with the M1E3 design now fairly stable and production underway.

And, as you say, based on the success of the 25mms, a 30+ AA gun with dual feed is going to be just as useful against ground targets.

The success of the 25mm APFSDS-DU round in Ukraine really threw the MICV requirements on it's head - as the US Army requirement was a 45-60mm Autocannon as the belief was that the 25mm didn't offer enough penetration for reliable hard kills on MBT's - and it was known the payload on the HE and HEI rounds was fairly low for both AP and C-UAS usage - but the 35 and 40mm (and 30mm) offer effective options there.

I like the 40mm CTA as the ammunition is lighter, and more practical storage, as well the cannon more reliable.

Seen, but scrim... that is what I was thinking about when I suggested kevlar netting rather than a wire cage.

Understood - I was hoping @Underway would be back to discuss the "electric" armor - as I see the potential for an external armor option with high density mesh - that is covered/layered with a VAS defeating camouflage scrim net.

 

[KevinB]

I'm picturing a cheap UGV that is low to the ground (so difficult to both detect and target) with an AT mine mounted on top. When the UGV strikes its target the platform holding the mine swings up like a catapult striking the tank causing a M-Kill.

You would likely be better suited to an EFP that attempts to penetrate from below - that is tamped in a manner by the earth.

 

[MilEME09]

So the army transformation plan has the tanks as heavy CAV, Medium Cav is coming and from what I hear its going to be tracked, so does that mean we are looking at a CV90120 type vehicle coming for the RCD and 12 RBC?

 

[Kirkhill]

You would likely be better suited to an EFP that attempts to penetrate from below - that is tamped in a manner by the earth.

Damocles™ Launched Effect

Damocles™ launched effect delivers a lightweight VTOL system designed to provide search and strike.

www.textronsystems.com

Both worlds. A self deploying off route mine with an EFP that loiters under cover on the ground.

 

[KevinB]

So the army transformation plan has the tanks as heavy CAV, Medium Cav is coming and from what I hear its going to be tracked, so does that mean we are looking at a CV90120 type vehicle coming for the RCD and 12 RBC?

M10 Booker found a buyer?
I mean it's GDLS right

 

[Kirkhill]

M10 Booker found a buyer?
I mean it's GDLS right

Turretless Booker = Ares

Ajax, Athena, Argus, Atlas, Apollo

Now they just need a SkyRanger version.

 

[QV]

So the army transformation plan has the tanks as heavy CAV, Medium Cav is coming and from what I hear its going to be tracked, so does that mean we are looking at a CV90120 type vehicle coming for the RCD and 12 RBC?

Would be cool if Canada had a whole suite of CV90 variants

 

[KevinB]

Would be cool if Canada had a whole suite of CV90 variants

Would have been a lot more cooler 20 years ago...

 

[PrairieFella]

So the army transformation plan has the tanks as heavy CAV, Medium Cav is coming and from what I hear its going to be tracked, so does that mean we are looking at a CV90120 type vehicle coming for the RCD and 12 RBC?

Probably closer to Ajax or CV9035. The problem with CV90120 is scope creep - commanders may want to use them as tanks if theyre armed as tanks. Honestly, for a screening, guarding and recceing-by-force formation like the medcav units will be, autocannon and missiles will be better. If I was a betting man id say Ajax and Ares as theyre made by GDLS.

 

[Kirkhill]

Probably closer to Ajax or CV9035. The problem with CV90120 is scope creep - commanders may want to use them as tanks if theyre armed as tanks. Honestly, for a screening, guarding and recceing-by-force formation like the medcav units will be, autocannon and missiles will be better. If I was a betting man id say Ajax and Ares as theyre made by GDLS.

Ares with Brimstone.

New Ajax Brimstone 'Overwatch' Variant Unveiled

The vehicle could operate in the vanguard of the British Army's future Heavy Brigade and Deep Recce Strike Combat Teams.

www.forcesnews.com

SURFACE LAUNCHED BRIMSTONE

The future battlefield will be characterised by crewed and uncrewed assets, operating seamlessly to provide combat mass across the Battlegroup area.

www.mbda-systems.com

Check out this video, "ajax with brimstone" https://share.google/l7y8X17aO8IdiZtk3

 

[Kirkhill]

The Gepard concept was always intriguing to me - as the Germans opted for a Leo 1 chassis as opposed to the Marder to that role - whereas the American option was the M163 Vulcan Air Defense System with the M61 Vulcan 20mm on a M113, and then the M-SHORAD Stryker.
The question here for the ABCT's seem to be waiting on the decision on the XM-30 MICV as to if it, or the APMV will be the Point Defense AD System for Armored Brigade, as there has been zero interest in making an Abrams PDAD even with the M1E3 design now fairly stable and production underway.


The success of the 25mm APFSDS-DU round in Ukraine really threw the MICV requirements on it's head - as the US Army requirement was a 45-60mm Autocannon as the belief was that the 25mm didn't offer enough penetration for reliable hard kills on MBT's - and it was known the payload on the HE and HEI rounds was fairly low for both AP and C-UAS usage - but the 35 and 40mm (and 30mm) offer effective options there.

I like the 40mm CTA as the ammunition is lighter, and more practical storage, as well the cannon more reliable.

Understood - I was hoping @Underway would be back to discuss the "electric" armor - as I see the potential for an external armor option with high density mesh - that is covered/layered with a VAS defeating camouflage scrim net.

My wife and enjoy watching mysteries. She has an unerring ability to ask a plot related question 3 seconds before the cast delivers the answer. I feel I am on a similar wavelength. A day late and a dollar short.

Anti-Drone System: Japan to Equip Promising IFVs and APCs With Drone Protection - Militarnyi

The Japanese Ministry of Defense has developed new variants of armored combat vehicles fitted with self-defense systems against drones.

militarnyi.com

IFV with 4 AESA arrays and a 30x173 Bushmaster Mk44
APC with 4 AESA arrays and a 30x113 M230LF