Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

[YZT580]

Ah, so we don’t all have to do our parts then? A cold shower was enough signaling, but don’t crimp the style of the bourgeoisie and their cling-ons? Nice.

Carry on fawning…
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And how many tons did he burn for his surfing trip to Tofino?

 

[Altair]

Follow the money. China is not a developing nation. Its military and scientific developments are right up there with the west. It produces a large percentage of our goods as any trip to Canadian Tire, Walmart, Costco, or Home Hardware will show. They even gave us COVID.

except their gdp per capita says otherwise. They are not earning first world wages, are they now?

Every time our electricity rates go up, their GDP goes up as well because we simply purchase more goods from them while closing another factory.

well, a carbon tax on their good is a good idea now isn't it?

Drive through Welland or St. Catharines or Trenton and look at the shuttered factories. Those products are now made overseas, not because our labour costs were too high but because our production costs became exhorbitant. Try Mercedes: they are primarily manufactured elsewhere than Germany. The same applies to VW and most other "European autos". Give your heads a shake. We are giving our future away chasing something that may or may not even be true.

of course jobs never moved to China and other before the carbon tax, eh?

According to predictions, the Northwest Passage was supposed to be ice free five years ago.

Very close to that actually.

The New Jersey coast is supposed to be underwater now, the Maldives as well yet they have actually increased in size.

never heard these.

There is a castle in Wales with an access that was built at the foot of the hill upon which it stands so that supplies could be brought in by ship in the event of a siege. That gate is more than a half mile from the sea. Two years ago Toronto Island flooded in the spring. Blamed on global warming. This year Ontario water levels are at the lowest level in years (global warming).

Ah yes, arguing in my favour, a confusing tactic but I like it.

Every single prediction the wamists have made has failed to materialize yet you still believe them. Jimmy Jones would have loved to have you in his congregation

Ever stop to think about what happens if they are right?

Or is it easier to bury your head in the sand and assume that they will never be right and thus we are all safe?

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'm sure the 0.00005575 percent of pollution the PM contributed over the 2 days he flew to Canadian emissions might be offset

Ah, so excusing a few emissions in order to reduce a greater amount of emissions is negotiable.

I propose expediting LNG exploration, extraction, and export, which will increase our CO2 emissions, in order to allow Asian countries to replace coal-burning thermal plants with cleaner LNG-burning thermal plants in order to reduce a greater amount of net worldwide emissions...

 

[Good2Golf]

And how many tons did he burn for his surfing trip to Tofino?

Actually a bit more…since he sent the Airbus back to Ottawa for the weekend. Probably closer to 300 tonnes. (2 X 5.0 hrs, twice).

 

[Altair]

Ah, so excusing a few emissions in order to reduce a greater amount of emissions is negotiable.

The PM travels.

O'Toole would travel too ya know, the other carbon tax guy.

I propose expediting LNG exploration, extraction, and export, which will increase our CO2 emissions, in order to allow Asian countries to replace coal-burning thermal plants with cleaner LNG-burning thermal plants in order to reduce a greater amount of net worldwide emissions...

Your plan would work if other nations worked on the premise that Canada could increase emissions to save the planet with clean LNG.

Seeing how they wouldn't accept that premise, your plan sucks.

China would take the LNG and still run coal fired plants and run a ton of polluting factories and now you have Canadian emissions up, Chinese emissions up, no Paris agreement so everyone emissions are going up, and nothing got accomplished.

Your plan sucks.

 

[Brad Sallows]

You're right, it sucks. It worked for the US, could probably work for Europe if Germany weren't so determined to make up for its shortfall by burning coal, but it sucks because others are...I dunno, stupid in their genes or something. China will just build more factories (and make what, using whose money, in the middle of this little fiscal crisis they're having, one wonders?) that they weren't going to build and run on coal-fueled electricity anyways, instead of replacing coal plants - they like their pungent SO2-laden air. The one time I was in Kaohshiung, Taiwan, I learned what a joy it is to have air that you can see, and almost feel. The people would complain if they didn't have that.

 

[Altair]

You're right, it sucks. It worked for the US, could probably work for Europe if Germany weren't so determined to make up for its shortfall by burning coal,

The US and Europe have the same targets as Canada, drop 30 percent.

But I guess the narrative in your head is comforting, so go with that over reality I guess.

but it sucks because others are...I dunno, stupid in their genes or something. China will just build more factories (and make what, using whose money, in the middle of this little fiscal crisis they're having, one wonders?) that they weren't going to build and run on coal-fueled electricity anyways, instead of replacing coal plants - they like their pungent SO2-laden air. The one time I was in Kaohshiung, Taiwan, I learned what a joy it is to have air that you can see, and almost feel. The people would complain if they didn't have that.

I don't like China but if they do top out in 2050 as is the plan we meet the targets. We meet the targets and we limit the warming of the planet.

It's shit simple, even the conservative party can understand it. Everyone does their part, everyone wins, not everyone does their part but Canada, we drive up our emissions to save the world and get rich doing so. That's not a plan, it's wishful thinking and it's which no one, not a single party in parliament is dumb enough to say what you are saying out loud.

There is one party that is saying it though, are you voting for them?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

You can ignore his emissions. He'll use the money he stole in carbon taxes to make the taxpayer buy carbon credits to cover his carbon emissions.

 

[ArmyRick]

After the electricity costs, plant construction, and the cost of just running the place, 600 dollars a ton may be the floor. It could easily reach 1000 a ton.

And if we are talking about the high capacity ones taking out 1 megatons (megaton being 1 million tons) of carbon from the air a year, and canada needing to drop about 200-300 megatons, we need about 200 of these across the country at the cost of about 120billion a year at the low price of 600 dollars a ton.

Carbon Capture plants are a complete waste of time. What I do for a living is regenerative farming and the proper maintenance of ecosystems using grasslands and agroforestry sequesters huge amounts of carbon and has beneficial food, materials, etc.

 

[ArmyRick]

One of the things that drives people crazy, or in my experience drive a whole platoon crazy or at least to a point of reaching civil tolerance, is that ONE guy who has answers for EVERYTHING.

In my experience, that individual actually has no real knowledge or experience in anything they speak of. And it shows. Using google? Wow. I could probably google all the information I "technically" need to steer an aircraft carrier into a harbour. However without REAL WORLD experience to back it up, its all just theory. And believe me, it would drastically show if I actually tried it with my present experience levels.

When talking about politics at every level, its a very complex matter to discuss and much of it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

My advice for some here (or maybe one of you) is to stop replying with an "I know the solution or what about" counter to every Valid point brought up.

 

[Altair]

One of the things that drives people crazy, or in my experience drive a whole platoon crazy or at least to a point of reaching civil tolerance, is that ONE guy who has answers for EVERYTHING.

In my experience, that individual actually has no real knowledge or experience in anything they speak of. And it shows. Using google? Wow. I could probably google all the information I "technically" need to steer an aircraft carrier into a harbour. However without REAL WORLD experience to back it up, its all just theory. And believe me, it would drastically show if I actually tried it with my present experience levels.

When talking about politics at every level, its a very complex matter to discuss and much of it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

My advice for some here (or maybe one of you) is to stop replying with an "I know the solution or what about" counter to every Valid point brought up.

I have stated many a time for people to come up with better solutions.

People have failed every time.

I have said repeatedly that the carbon tax is the least bad option, not that it was great.

You know what is annoying though? People repeatedly complaining about something without presenting any valid alternatives. It's always been my motto that before someone complains about a program or course of action, they had better have a valid replacement.

People here just deny climate change is a thing so they don't have to do that. I don't have all the answers but some people don't even acknowledge that there is a question.

 

[Remius]

I have stated many a time for people to come up with better solutions.

People have failed every time.

I have said repeatedly that the carbon tax is the least bad option, not that it was great.

You know what is annoying though? People repeatedly complaining about something without presenting any valid alternatives. It's always been my motto that before someone complains about a program or course of action, they had better have a valid replacement.

People here just deny climate change is a thing so they don't have to do that. I don't have all the answers but some people don't even acknowledge that there is a question.

I’m not denying climate change is a thing. But I don’t think what they are doing now is going to work the way they think it will.

I’ve posted before that bilateral agreements and climate “clubs” are the way to go. That way you can better adapt to each region’s particular issues and challenges. Trying to create one standard for the planet won’t work in my opinion.

 

[Altair]

I’m not denying climate change is a thing. But I don’t think what they are doing now is going to work the way they think it will.

I’ve posted before that bilateral agreements and climate “clubs” are the way to go. That way you can better adapt to each region’s particular issues and challenges. Trying to create one standard for the planet won’t work in my opinion.

They didn't create one standard. They gave the first world a faster deadline than the developing world.

The also allocated, or are supposed to allocate, money to the third world.

That's 3 different frameworks right there.

As for clubs and bilateral agreements there are 195ish nations on the planet. Depending on what you mean here that's a lot of countries talking to other countries trying to come to agreements. It would take many decades to go that route, no?

 

[Remius]

They didn't create one standard. They gave the first world a faster deadline than the developing world.

The also allocated, or are supposed to allocate, money to the third world.

That's 3 different frameworks right there.

As for clubs and bilateral agreements there are 195ish nations on the planet. Depending on what you mean here that's a lot of countries talking to other countries trying to come to agreements. It would take many decades to go that route, no?

No. Because you would not just be dealing with one on one groups. The G7, G20, Commonwealth, trading blocks etc etc are all examples of groups that can effect more efficient change and add conditions when working with others. Groups that can actually sanction their own members within the framework of their own organisations.

Ah, yes, money allocated to the third world. Think about that. Historically how has that worked? Either the money never gets allocated or the money gets spent on “other” things. So, no offence, but I am always sceptical that money allocated to the third world actually gets to where it needs to.

 

[ArmyRick]

I have stated many a time for people to come up with better solutions.

People have failed every time.

I have said repeatedly that the carbon tax is the least bad option, not that it was great.

You know what is annoying though? People repeatedly complaining about something without presenting any valid alternatives. It's always been my motto that before someone complains about a program or course of action, they had better have a valid replacement.

People here just deny climate change is a thing so they don't have to do that. I don't have all the answers but some people don't even acknowledge that there is a question.

I have one of the major solutions (as do so many others and most global governments ignore it) to our Carbon overload in the atmosphere. I have presented it before and in fact put it in your face. REGENERATIVE AGRICULTURE. Argue with me on this at your own peril. And sunshine, I have a much larger handle on sources of atmospheric carbon than you probably ever will.

On many of the other issues discussing here, you continue to reinforce my point. You have THEORIES. That's all. Untested, untried and unknown. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I have stated many a time for people to come up with better solutions.

People have failed every time.

I have said repeatedly that the carbon tax is the least bad option, not that it was great.

You know what is annoying though? People repeatedly complaining about something without presenting any valid alternatives. It's always been my motto that before someone complains about a program or course of action, they had better have a valid replacement.

People here just deny climate change is a thing so they don't have to do that. I don't have all the answers but some people don't even acknowledge that there is a question.

3 simple things we could do to limit climate change (though would have disastrous effects in other areas).

1) No taxes on used items, start encouraging recycling and reusing items. Canadians are very entitled in the way we shop, very few look at used items as something worth buying and if something is out of style or unwanted we tend to garbage it instead of trying to send it on for someone else to use.

2) Stop allowing products which don't meet a similar environmental standard to products made in Canada from being sold in Canada. How does it make sense that we have such high standards to meet in our country, yet we can import products which were made without those standards with no issue?

3) Stop shipping raw resources to countries which we know are going to use them to produce items in environmentally unfriendly ways.

Carbon tax is a joke, simply creating a new tax and trying to convince people that somehow a tax which doesn't get put into environmental initiatives helps the planet. I wouldn't say the Conservatives are behind it, they are simply not for getting rid of it because the unwashed masses like the idea.

We have all sorts of replacements for the carbon tax in place, such as environmental controls and limits. Its not like the carbon tax is doing much other than driving business out of Canada (which actually might be the intended goal). We can now buy products made with lower standards, have them shipped from over seas, the net result being we create significantly more emissions for a similar product. Great job carbon tax, you hurt Canadian business, created more global emissions, and gave our politicians a way to pretend we are actually doing something.

 

[YZT580]

Science is all about doing repeatable experiments in an attempt to prove that a theory is wrong. If the results of the experiment show a flaw in the theory than the theory is wrong and needs to be re-written. Climate science is not a science. It is not possible to conduct a physical experiment to either prove or disprove the notion that measured increases in temperature are the result of human intervention. Mathematical formulas don't constitute climate science simply because there is no way to disprove them. They are designed to provide the desired answer. Few if any of the many climate programmes out there can replicate historical records: they always read too high. So what we are doing is wasting our money pursuing something that may or may not be true in the hope that we can stop the tide.

 

[RangerRay]

What about nuclear power? It’s clean, efficient and much safer today. Previous disasters were because of poor (Soviet) technology, building them on fault lines, poor safety protocols and a culture of gaslighting in totalitarian regimes. Done properly, nuclear power plants could easily replace more carbon intensive energy sources. The nuclear power industry needs to hire some better PR types.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What about nuclear power? It’s clean, efficient and much safer today. Previous disasters were because of poor (Soviet) technology, building them on fault lines, poor safety protocols and a culture of gaslighting in totalitarian regimes. Done properly, nuclear power plants could easily replace more carbon intensive energy sources. The nuclear power industry needs to hire some better PR types.

Your tax dollars are at work in this arena:

Canada’s Small Modular Reactor Action Plan​

Small Modular Reactors: the next wave of nuclear innovation​

Innovation in the nuclear sector plays a critical role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions and delivering good, middle-class jobs as Canada moves toward a low-carbon future.

Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) could be the future of Canada’s nuclear industry, with the potential to provide non-emitting energy for a wide range of applications, from grid-scale electricity generation to use in heavy industry and remote communities.

Canada is well-positioned to become a global leader in the development and deployment of SMR technology. With over 60 years of science and technology innovation, a world-class regulator and a vibrant domestic supply chain, Canada's nuclear industry is poised to be a leader in an emerging global market estimated at $150 billion a year by 2040.

Canada’s Small Modular Reactor Action Plan

Small Modular Reactors: the next wave of nuclear innovation

www.nrcan.gc.ca

 

[Brad Sallows]

People have failed every time.

No, you have just asserted that everything except the exact solution of which you approve is politically impossible, or put down some figment of your imagination (the Chinese will just build more factories!) as an objection.