Canadian Forces Aptitude Test (CFAT) [MERGED]

[mdh]

gregorydewolfe

It's not unusual for people to have trouble on the math part of the test - it was a common occurrence when I was helping out (briefly) in recruiting for our reserve unit - even if you have a degree (especially if you're on the more artistic side of the fence with regard to a major) - so take a deep breath and figure out your next steps.  If you really want to join up work on the math problem solving side - take a course and write the CFAT again. You must meet a certain cut-off score to qualify for officer MOCs - particulary if they are more technical in nature which some log positions are. It's amazing how quickly you can lose math skills.

Alternatively - there is nothing wrong with working on the NCM side and getting some experience - may not be your first choice, but it depends on how badly you want to serve.

If you're interested in less "hard" technical officer MOCs such as combat arms - you might be able to apply for a waiver if you have a degree - but you should ask a professional recruiter about how that works in practice.

mdh

ps please be careful about wording with regard to NCM trades - categorizing them as "not much" probably isn't the best way to describe some great MOCs.

 

[FITSUMO]

gregorydewolfe :

Hey I work in research and development and work with math every day, but I still had to review the basic's, because if you do not practice, it goes away, I did lots of studying and it paid off, So what I suggest is to ( don't take this the wrong way, cause I had to do it too), leave your ego at the door and study/review, you know how to do this stuff( you got into university) but you need to work off the cob webs.... I would say if you are not happy then study your butt off and retake and kick A$$.  Just as a side note, the trades you where offered are good trades, but if its not what you are looking for then retake.  I will get the titles of the books that I used and thy helped, will post them later.

 

[George Wallace]

You haven't mentioned having a Degree, but I can assure you that many soldiers in the Cbt Arms (some of the choices given to you) do.  There are many trades in the CF that are rewarding and educational.  Not everyone is an Officer, but many are leaders. 

I am curious, in reading your posts, as to what sort of English you were taught in school.  Years ago when I went to university, there was a problem with many students that were graduating being illiterate.  It seems that that problem still persists.  Not a problem.  In the military, as one advances to higher ranks, starting in the MCpl rank, they will have to write reports and such.  The military does provide extra courses to further ones education.  Do a search of this site as to some of the education options open to CF members.

 

[gregorydewolfe]

ok, i was going to go out and look at the books at chapters, maybe i can find the one's u used.  The book i used was called all the math you'll even need and i thought i was going to, and also did well on the math part, but i was wrong.  The ego isnt the problem.  The problem is that im in shock because i didnt expect score low and also didnt expect that i might have to look at other trades because i thought i already had my mind made up on the trade, but now i dont know.  The trades i was offered might be good i dont know anything about them.  All i know is that my friend (who as in the army for 6 years) told me last week that if cook and firefighter show up on my "list", i didn't do well on the test and that if i have to re-take the test, they use the lastest score, not the highest which might be a problem.  

 

[George Wallace]

Friends can be nasty and not always right.

 

[gregorydewolfe]

yeah well actaully he's not really a friend, just a co-worker and he's not even in the army anymore and isnt going back he says.  I guess what im asking is how can i pick a trade that has something to do with my marketing degree and im not gonna be away from my wife all the time.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The trade you want to ask about is 9-2-5 tech.  Ask any recruiter. It's not very well known, but fits your requirements of serving without inconvenience... :

Kat

 

[gregorydewolfe]

what the hell is a 9 2 5 tech

 

[George Wallace]

That is so secret, it shouldn't have been mentioned here.  ;D

Kat

Dolly P will be looking for you.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Mea culpa for the security comp...

Kat

 

[Cloud Cover]

The trade you want to ask about is 9-2-5 tech.   Ask any recruiter. It's not very well known, but fits your requirements of serving without inconvenience... :

Kat

beadwindow beadwindow ..

 

[Cloud Cover]

Sorry, it was a joke. Beadwindow is an EEFI.

 

[Edward Campbell]

If you'll forgive my instant and distant analysis, gregorydewolfe, it 'reads' to me that you want to take a lot more out of the army than you are considering putting in.

I know nothing about the CFAT, we didn't have such things when I was a lad; we wrote something called a 'M Test' â “ all I can remember is that officers and some trades like Engineers and Signals had to score 120, Infantry and Armoured soldiers needed 110, Service Corps soldiers (cooks and drivers) needed 100, and MPs and pipers needed 90.   (The theory, I guess, was that it didn't require too much imagination to march up and down in front of an irate, aggressive enemy playing the bagpipes â “ annoying them further.)   (I'm pretty sure I got more than 120 because I never wrote the thing again and I was selected, after a few years, for officer training.)   In any event I wanted to join the infantry and the infantry seemed pleased enough to have me for a while â “ it (the infantry) actually seemed disinterested and annoyed, by turns, but training is always like that.   I joined for about equal parts fun and adventure and to avoid the 'master plan' my family had all neatly mapped out â “ doing things outdoors, maybe overseas in exotic places, with guns all seemed like the right thing for an 18 year old.   It was, too.   I didn't leave until nearly 37 years later.   I switched cap badges a few times and worked my way through nearly a dozen enlisted and commissioned ranks but I wouldn't do anything else.

During that time I had more than one occasion to deal with would-be officers (myself and my officer candidate platoon-mates included).   I developed some pretty strong views about what sort of product we need to feed in to the 'sausage machine': tough, bright, adventurous, fit and athletic, curious and interested and adequately educated youngsters; the same for all corps â “ logistics and infantry, alike.   I still believe, quite firmly, that a bare pass BA with a major in basket weaving will do; the army shouldn't care much (except for e.g. engineering officers) what you learned in school â “ just as long as you persevered and demonstrated an ability to learn something.   The army will teach you all the useful information in the world â “ some of it will even come on army courses, up to and including post-graduate level courses but most will be taught by grizzled NCOs with far less formal education and way more smarts than the people under instruction.   My personal experience was that instruction slowed after I had about 30 years of service and stopped almost dead at 36.

Aptitude can be measured, I think, and the army has concluded, based on about 2,000 years of experience, that certain measurable things â “ like math scores after only 30 well chosen questions â “ can tell them who is likely to make it through training for certain occupations, like logistics officer.

If you think you have something for the army then I suggest you try one of the open trades, I am partial to INF â “ I think that's where you have the most fun, but I'm prejudiced and, probably, reliving my youth, vicariously, through army.ca.   If you like the army and it likes you then the sky is the limit.   If you and the army are not well suited for one another then you still have some useful experience â “ maybe real, rock-solid leadership experience.   In either event you will have a measure of yourself.

Few enough people who want to be soldiers do really well at it; a very few of those who, like you (and as I thought I did), want some experience before they do something real with their lives do become good (adequate, anyway) soldiers, but the chances are slimmer.

Good luck.

Edited to correct spelling and sentence structure

 

[Michael OLeary]

Edward, a superb post, thank you. I have added a link to it in the Recruiting FAQ under "Thinking About Joining." I took the liberty of labelling it "Your aptitudes and desires versus the Army's needs (an excellent post by a very experienced gentleman)."

 

[gregorydewolfe]

dear Edward...

that was an interesting post by someone im sure i could learn a lot from.  8 months ago when i first applied, they asked me what my degree was and i said business with a major in marketing and management.  Then they said, ok logO is what you want.  I didn't think anymore about it, and havent even looked into any other jobs in the air force.  I didn't even think about until during the interview today when we started talking about all the fincance and accounting that would have to be done (were not my favorite classes by a long shot).  So today i'm very upset and confused because i thought this was going to be my career, but now i have to come to reality and deal with the fact that getting a low score again on the math section could happen again.  I don't even know what happend today.  I worked out all the questions and thought there was going to be no problem.  I have no idea how to prepare more for the same test.  I tried to find spacial, word problem and fraction books today but couldn't find examples of what i saw today which would help me get a higher score. 

Basically it was a bad day because of that and when i applied, for me to even write for DEO, I had to get a 4 or more out of 5 when my resume was looked at.  I only got a 3 and called to find out why.  Was told that my 4 years teaching in korea didn't count as "supervisor" experience and I asked why not, and they looked at my resume again and changed their minds and gave me a 4.  So today I come to find out that even if I got a high score on the test today, I probably wouldn't have gotten LogO anyways since my resume isn't competitive enough. 

So after the "interview" i found myself back to where I was in December, not knowing what i want my career to be and worrying that i only have one more chance to nail the 30 easy math questions.  I want to put a lot into the airforce, i just dont want to be away from my wife for years at a time.

 

[NavComm]

gee I wonder if that 9-2-5 Tech is available for reservists? I guess then it would be R9-2-5 Tech, One saturday a month.  ^-^

Gregory I am wondering what made you decide on log officer? What criteria did you use to choose that? It does sound like you don't want to do anything to do with bookkeeping/accounting and seems like that job has a lot of that in it.

As for your comment that they didn't offer you much, looks like they offered everything but the kitchen sink and few other MOC's that for whatever reason require a higher score than you got on the aptitude test.

How did you do on the other portions of the test?

 

[D-n-A]

Theres a different CFAT test for officers an NCMs, are you sure of that? If you look above this thread, your see another one on the CFAT that has 36 pages discussing the test, have a look at it.


http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23193.0.html

 

[gregorydewolfe]

they do give the results they dont tell you what questions you got wrong though.  They only tell you the totals.

 

[NavComm]

They didn't give me the results, just that I had passed for my MOC. But during the interview I was told I got 100% on the verbal skills portion, no mention of the other portions.

 

[J.R.]

Sorry for the misinformation ... I misinterpreted another thread.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention MikeL.  Anyway, good luck with the test; something that I have experienced is that if you practice a bit with some spatial and problem solving questions from other sources, you can get a bit of a handle on how the test questions will be.  Personally, I wrote the GMAT and completed some Mensa tests and found that they sharpened my focus for the test and I did very well.  Not sure what can be done for the verbal, especially the word meanings part.  Thanks again to MikeL for clearing up the phantom separate test. :-[