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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

PMedMoe said:
You know damn well they'll blame the shelter in place order though.
Flatten the curve we are told. Don't go out. If you go out you may be spreading the virus and people may die. People take this seriously as they should. In some people the fear of possible death by going out the door can overwhelm them. This kid was told not to go out but he disobeyed and they wouldn't let him back in when he returned, for fear of infection no doubt. Then he proceeded to kick down the door and engaged in a fight with the step father. Then he shot him dead. This will have to be decided in court but do you think the "shelter in place defense" will be put forward? People are afraid and they will do things they would never do in normal times.
 
kkwd said:
Flatten the curve we are told. Don't go out. If you go out you may be spreading the virus and people may die. People take this seriously as they should. In some people the fear of possible death by going out the door can overwhelm them. This kid was told not to go out but he disobeyed and they wouldn't let him back in when he returned, for fear of infection no doubt. Then he proceeded to kick down the door and engaged in a fight with the step father. Then he shot him dead. This will have to be decided in court but do you think the "shelter in place defense" will be put forward? People are afraid and they will do things they would never do in normal times.


If I was the defence lawyer I would certainly explore that angle.  There is likely a lot more going on.  16 year old boys are full of attitude, testosterone and think they are invincible.  Add to the mix what seems to be a tense relationship between the boy and stepfather.  Stepparent/child relationships can be complicated. 

Locking the door could have been a fear thing or maybe it was the last straw and was meant as a lesson or the follow through on a threat should he decide to leave against their wishes.  If my boy tried to defy me I would be locking the door as well to teach him a lesson.  COVID or no COVID. For all we know maybe he was going out to get himself into trouble and they finally had enough. 

Things certainly got out of hand.
 
Remius said:
Things certainly got out of hand.
For sure, we will all be glad to see the back end of this.

Staff edit to fix quote formating.
 
This is not about them and us. It is not about politics or race or gender or religion. It is about everybody. I ask for a little regard for your fellow travelers on this train of sorrow, we all have a ticket on it. Those travelers are people, people with thoughts and feelings and right now deep deep fears. We will do crazy things but please understand extreme stress can have horrible effects. The blame game can be played after we get this crisis behind us and can think more clearly and not with emotion tainted by uncertainty.
 
Ontario takes 'extraordinary step' to give police list of all COVID-19 patients

A civil liberties group is raising concerns after the Ontario government took the "extraordinary step" to release a database to police with a list of everyone who has tested positive for COVID-19 in the province.

On April 6, the province announced they would provide first responders with the names, date of birth and address of all patients who tested positive for the virus.

...

According to the government, patient data has been shared with police, firefighters and paramedics across the province.

The Canadian Civil Liberties Association (CCLA) told CTV News Toronto on Friday the province needs to be "extremely clear" on how the personal information is being used during the pandemic.

...


https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-takes-extraordinary-step-to-give-police-list-of-all-covid-19-patients-1.4910950
 
I'm cool with that......I got lucky, unlike a lot of my coworkers, but I said right from the start that if I tested positive to "shout it from the rooftops" just in case I forgot someone I spent time in passing with.
This is supposed to be an "emergency", obviously normal rules are not applicable.
 

It would be easier if they forced COVID patients to sew a big 'C' on their jackets or something.

Hmmmm... hasn't that been done before?  :sarcasm:
 
We could certainly shorten the Emergencies Act and make it easier to understand.

"1. Parliament may declare an Emergency.

2. During an Emergency, all the rules are merely guidelines."
 
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&fbclid=IwAR0SGwvp8DXSXHL_CxhvYBeS5I0TJlIy6Wq5XPJ8YiAin55SBdHyVYRkCHE


Interesting essay on why the US is becoming or is a failed state.
 
Remius said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/06/underlying-conditions/610261/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share&fbclid=IwAR0SGwvp8DXSXHL_CxhvYBeS5I0TJlIy6Wq5XPJ8YiAin55SBdHyVYRkCHE


Interesting essay on why the US is becoming or is a failed state.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-case-for-invading-america/amp/

Relevant all over again
 
Quebec just announced that primary (elementary schools) schools outside of Montreal will be opening on 11 May and in Montreal on 19 May.  High School and Universities will remain closed until at least the end of Aug.  Kids will need to wear masks and keep 2 metres apart.  Really?  The Premier must be an idiot to think this will happen.  They're kids, it comes natural to bunch up.
 
stellarpanther said:
Quebec just announced that primary (elementary schools) schools outside of Montreal will be opening on 11 May and in Montreal on 19 May.  High School and Universities will remain closed until at least the end of Aug.  Kids will need to wear masks and keep 2 metres apart.  Really?  The Premier must be an idiot to think this will happen.  They're kids, it comes natural to bunch up.

An idiot? Really?

It's natural for kids to ignore what they are told yet we still keep doing it.
 
Here's a policy that might need looking at....


The Unethical Damage Done by Forcing People to Die Alone

The lack of sound leadership during the Covid-19 crisis harms many.

In New York, Steve Kaminski was taken to the hospital and died a week later of Covid-19. Alone. In London, 13-year old Ismail Mohamed Abdulwahab died alone in London’s King’s College Hospital. Many hospitals have no visitor policy, so thousands of people are dying alone. These people have been forced, often against their will, to remain isolated and die alone. Their loved ones have also been forced against their will to remain away from their loved ones. Doctors don’t like it either and report being traumatized by watching people die alone.

The rationale for forcing people to die alone is that isolation and social distancing will slow the spread of Covid-19 and prevent deaths. My opinion is that this must be true. However, the evidence supporting my opinion is mixed. In any case, it is possible to implement a great deal of isolation and social distancing while at the same time not force people to die alone. If a close family member agrees to take the risk of contracting Covid-19 and agrees to self-isolate for a period afterward, they should not be stopped from being with their loved ones who are dying of Covid-19. In fact, forcing people to die alone violates all four ethical principles (do no harm, help the sick, autonomy, and justice)

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/doctor-you/202004/the-unethical-damage-done-forcing-people-die-alone
 
Remius said:
An idiot? Really?

It's natural for kids to ignore what they are told yet we still keep doing it.

I understand what he's trying to do which is build a bit of a herd immunity in hopes that if/when there will be a second wave less people will get infected then and have less of a drain on the medical system.  Several medical experts have said there is no proof that being infected once will mean you have immunity.  I think it's dangerous to take that gamble.  I also don't think it will work and I believe the cases will increase meaning others will possibly die.  I don't think it's smart.  As an Ontario taxpayer, I would like to see our province close the border with Quebec which is what New Brunswick did.  I didn't favour it before much but I certainly do now.  With cases still going up in Quebec this is too risky.  I had 2 phone calls and 4 emails from friends today telling me about this.  They are in disbelief he would do that.

 
stellarpanther said:
I understand what he's trying to do which is build a bit of a herd immunity in hopes that if/when there will be a second wave less people will get infected then and have less of a drain on the medical system.  Several medical experts have said there is no proof that being infected once will mean you have immunity.  I think it's dangerous to take that gamble.  I also don't think it will work and I believe the cases will increase meaning others will possibly die.  I don't think it's smart.  As an Ontario taxpayer, I would like to see our province close the border with Quebec which is what New Brunswick did.  I didn't favour it before much but I certainly do now.  With cases still going up in Quebec this is too risky.  I had 2 phone calls and 4 emails from friends today telling me about this.  They are in disbelief he would do that.
I really dont understand how getting the virus doesnt build immunity.

If getting the live virus and having your immune system beat it off doesnt cause immunity, how in the world will a dead version of the virus in a vaccine possibly be effective?
 
Stellar, cases in QC are rising in specific areas.  But I’m agree that 11 May may be a bit early.  He did issue a caveat that the number of cases had to be stable before then.  So that date may change.

In regards to the border, yes we may have to keep it closed.  But their are a small amount of cases in Gatineau and I think only two deaths.  I could be wrong.

We may see provinces adopt different timelines.

So far I’m happy with Ford’s approach.
 
>We may see provinces adopt different timelines.

Also by cities.  Also by states and cities in the US.  Many trials == lots of opportunities to discover effective and ineffective approaches.  One of the benefits of political decentralization.
 
And in other karma related news.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article242317346.html

One of the leaders of ReOpen NC group says she tested positive for COVID-19



 
daftandbarmy said:
Doctors don’t like it either and report being traumatized by watching people die alone.

Although they will not be included in the statistics, health-care suicides are another tragic toll of the coronavirus pandemic.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/27/health-care-suicides-another-tragic-toll-of-coronavirus-pandemic/

Dr. Lorna Breen; "A top Manhattan ER doctor"

and EMT John Mondello.

A probationary Bronx EMT, who went from the camaraderie of the FDNY academy directly into the horrors of the coronavirus pandemic, shot himself this week after less than three months on the job.

Graduated the Fire Department’s EMS Academy in February, and went to work with the Tactical Response Group ( TRG ) next to EMS Station 18 in the Bronx — one of the busiest by 911 call volume in the city.






 

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:o

That's so sad, I just watched her Snapchat story not long ago where she talked about the struggles they were facing!!

God Bless them both.  Truly.  :(
 
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