CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[OceanBonfire]

The White House is silently "taking over" and tries to control the CDC. You'd be very skeptical of any info coming from the CDC until the Trump administration is gone:

White House puts ‘politicals’ at CDC to try to control info

The Trump White House has installed two political operatives at the nation’s top public health agency to try to control the information it releases about the coronavirus pandemic as the administration seeks to paint a positive outlook, sometimes at odds with the scientific evidence.

The two appointees assigned to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Atlanta headquarters in June have no public health background. They have instead been tasked with keeping an eye on Dr. Robert Redfield, the agency director, as well as scientists, according to a half-dozen CDC and administration officials who spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal government affairs.

The appointments were part of a push to get more “politicals” into the CDC to help control messaging after a handful of leaks were “upsetting the apple cart,” said an administration official.

...


https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-pandemics-public-health-new-york-e321f4c9098b4db4dd6b1eda76a5179e

 

[Brad Sallows]

Take heart.  If people at the CDC can't be muzzled about the appointment of people they think were sent to muzzle them, I doubt the people will be shy about ensuring correct information gets out.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Take heart.  If people at the CDC can't be muzzled about the appointment of people they think were sent to muzzle them, I doubt the people will be shy about ensuring correct information gets out.

:rofl:

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Take heart.  If people at the CDC can't be muzzled about the appointment of people they think were sent to muzzle them, I doubt the people will be shy about ensuring correct information gets out.

Stop killing peoples conspiracy theories,....its all some folks have.

 

[mariomike]

Stop killing peoples conspiracy theories,....its all some folks have.

Right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Conspiracy_theories_promoted_by_Donald_Trump

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Wikipedia??  Must be true then because not just anybody can edit th,...what, pardon??...oh, didn't know that, ….ummm never mind.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Conspiracy_theories_promoted_by_Donald_Trump

Some of those conspiracies Trump believes in don't seem that crazy to me.

Like the Epstein being murdered one
-Epstein's cellmate was transferred, and no replacement was brought in.
-two guards failed to perform the required institutional count at 10:00 p.m.
-Through the night, in violation of the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes.
-The two guards who were assigned to check his cell overnight, Noel and Michael Thomas, fell asleep at their desk for about three hours
-Noel and Michael Thomas later falsified related records.
-Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night.
-Another camera had footage that was "unusable".


China's influence over the WHO is another one.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I still want the Epstein picture Christmas decoration for my tree...….."This ornament didn't hang itself"

 

[blacktriangle]

Some of those conspiracies Trump believes in don't seem that crazy to me.

Like the Epstein being murdered one
-Epstein's cellmate was transferred, and no replacement was brought in.
-two guards failed to perform the required institutional count at 10:00 p.m.
-Through the night, in violation of the jail's normal procedure, Epstein was not checked every 30 minutes.
-The two guards who were assigned to check his cell overnight, Noel and Michael Thomas, fell asleep at their desk for about three hours
-Noel and Michael Thomas later falsified related records.
-Two cameras in front of Epstein's cell also malfunctioned that night.
-Another camera had footage that was "unusable".


China's influence over the WHO is another one.

With luck like that, you don't even need to call the umbrella man...

 

[OceanBonfire]

It was bound to happen with the conservatives when we learned about the treatment used to help Trump fight the Covid infection:

Conservatives confront moral dilemma of vaccines and treatments derived from fetal tissue cells

The race to develop vaccines and treatments for COVID-19 has newly highlighted a longstanding dilemma for religious conservatives: much of the cutting-edge research relies on the use of material derived from human fetal tissue -- something they have spent years fighting against.

...

At issue is the use of cells derived from human fetal tissue to discover, develop and test medical innovation -- something scientists agree is often necessary in the most groundbreaking medical advances.

...


https://abcnews.go.com/Health/conservatives-confront-moral-dilemma-vaccines-treatments-derived-fetal/story?id=73664533

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Love how they tar every right leaning folk with the same brush.....no wonder most folk have given up on the media.

They are honestly the assholes of the free world...

 

[CBH99]

It was bound to happen with the conservatives when we learned about the treatment used to help Trump fight the Covid infection:

This is where the separation of Church and State needs to be diligently analyzed & enforced. 

Are we really willing to stagnate, at the risk of everything wrong with the way Covid has been handled, because of some people's far leaning religious beliefs?



I'm a fairly conservative guy, but open to well articulated liberal points.  I tend to believe that extreme anything - extreme left, extreme right, extreme religious beliefs, extreme dieting, etc etc - extreme anything can be dangerous.

If stem cell research will speed things up, or prevent people from getting sick in the future, or help cure serious illnesses - I say go for it.  (The argument that the fetus can't give consent is a Captain Picard worthy facepalm, in my own humble opinion.)


:2c:

 

[mariomike]

The Secret Service Presidential Protection Unit has been hit hard,

More than 130 Secret Service officers are said to be infected with coronavirus or quarantining in wake of Trump’s campaign travel
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-service-coronavirus-outbreak/2020/11/13/610eebcc-2539-11eb-8672-c281c7a2c96e_story.html

 

[brihard]

The Secret Service Presidential Protection Unit has been hit hard,

Absolutely. Protective units like that are quite vulnerable. They have to travel a lot, they’re basically forced into potential repeated close proximity, crowd situations, etc... and you can very easily have whole teams knocked out for an few days or a week by one member having a positive test or even known contact. Doesn’t help when the protectee is choosing to disregard risks.

 

[kkwd]

How would a national response to covid play with all levels of government below it as well as the people.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-covid-19-second-wave-trudeau-national-response-1.5801776

How a national response could address an unprecedented COVID-19 surge across Canada

Federal emergency powers could create more unified approach to pandemic but at what cost?

COVID-19 levels are surging across Canada at rates never before seen in the pandemic and showing no signs of slowing down.

The coronavirus continues to spread like wildfire both in areas that were hit hard in the first wave and those that were practically untouched previously, and the reaction from the federal government has taken a desperate tone.

One approach that has been put forth by public health experts is the use of emergency federal powers to co-ordinate our response to the pandemic across the country.

That can be done either by using the Emergencies Act or through the inherent emergency power the federal government has under the Constitution Act.

The Emergencies Act is far-reaching in that it allows the federal government to extend its power over provinces and their health-care systems to deal with the pandemic.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

How would a national response to covid play with all levels of government below it as well as the people.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-covid-19-second-wave-trudeau-national-response-1.5801776

No thanks. The disease is already endemic at this point in time.  Doing this now would do nothing but prolong the pandemic and cause other suffering. This second wave isn't anywhere near as deadly as the 1st wave either.

I was heavily in favour of instituting Martial Law back in February/March and everyone thought I was nuts.  Locking down travel, shutting down the entire Country for a couple of weeks. 

It's way too late for that now and anyone who is pedalling a Zero Case Strategy is living in lalaland.

 

[Altair]

How would a national response to covid play with all levels of government below it as well as the people.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-covid-19-second-wave-trudeau-national-response-1.5801776

doubt the feds even want to think of that.

Federal response, federal failure. Right now if the province's fail, the feds either get to blame them outright or share the blame. A federal response makes it all on them, and if they fail everyone up to and including the provinces get to shift the blame to them.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The situation is nowhere near as bleak as some are making it out to be:

All charts created using publicly available data.  The amount of hysteria around this virus is really confusing to me?  What am I missing here or am I just a cold hearted asshole?

There is certainly a huge risk to people in LTC homes and the elderly but why are shutting everything down again when this second wave doesn't appear to be nearly as deadly as the first?

 

[Remius]

It may be less deadly because we've found ways to keep people alive more effectively.  Also younger people seem to be the ones getting infected therefore a higher likelihood of survival.  We locked up most young people last spring. Now more of them are catching it. That skews the numbers to make it look less deadly on a deaths per million calculation.

The problem is that it has yet to spread to the older more vulnerable types as much this time but time may change that as cases increase.

What is the current ICU situation though?  Are we admitting more people to ICUs than we were last time?  That may be a better indicator. 

According to this, it isn't good.  https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-hospitals-alarmed-by-increase-in-covid-19-cases-and-icu/

So while the numbers may look less deadly now, it could get out of control based on our current trajectory.

That is likely what they want to avoid.

 

[PuckChaser]

That article is from 2 months ago.

You cannot on one hand say we're skewing the data because more young people are catching COVID making it less deadly and simulaneously imply that the March/April/May numbers are the accurate ones where predominately older Canadians contracted the virus. The mortality rate of a virus has to be looked at across the whole of who it infects, not cherry picking demographics to spike numbers and fear.

Take a look at the Ontario data: https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

Show me on this graph where the spike in hospitalizations and ICU admission in Ontario is. We're at double the active cases since the peak in End April, and under half of the hospitalizations. That's a good news story. Ontario's current case fatality rate is 0.04% and dropping. 85% of Ontario's cases are from the 69 and under age group but only comprise 13% of the fatalities. That means 15% of our cases are from the 70+ group comprise 87% of the fatalities. Thats where we need to focus our attention, on the 70+ age group to keep them safe from high risk situations.

Locking down our country has clearly done nothing, as we've had the same social restrictions in group sizes since August. We've seen a 40% spike in opioid deaths in the first 15 weeks of the pandemic in Ontario, and the studies aren't even out on the mental health toll which will take years to come out. My 4 year old kid is showing all the appropriate social interactions for a child his age like sharing toys, high fives, etc, but is being told not to do them by his teachers due to the COVID restrictions. If we keep this lockdown going on longer, are we risking a generation of kids growing up unable to socialize properly in public?

It's time to rip the bandaid off, COVID-19 is not as deadly as we thought. Its endemic, let's learn to live with it and protect those truly at risk instead of draconian regulations that have so far been completely ineffective at slowing it down.