CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[FJAG]

Arizona GOP chair encourages anti-stay-at-home protesters to dress like health-care workers

The chairwoman of the Arizona Republican Party is encouraging people planning to protest stay-at-home orders imposed amid the coronavirus pandemic to dress like health-care workers.

And she's a doctor?

Dr. Kelli Ward, a former state senator and primary care physician, tweeted on Friday that people participating in protests to end the government-imposed closures of regular business should wear scrubs and masks.

:brickwall:

 

[PuckChaser]

Quebec is starting to reopen next week and throughout May while they're still barely handling their cases. This is ridiculous.

I haven't listened to their daily press conferences (mostly because my francais is not bon), but I follow Ontario quite closely. In Ontario there is a tale of 2 pandemics. One in LTC, and one in the community. The mortality rate is skewed heavily to the LTC in Ontario, where close quarters living arrangements are making the problem worse. The community isolation is working but we cannot keep a relatively low risk population locked down forever. Judging by the media reports, I'm willing to bet the same case is true for Quebec. The entire purpose of locking down the country was to keep cases from overwhelming the medical system, namely ICU and ward beds (that's what flatten the curve means). If they believe sufficient capacity exists to handle an uptick in infections once people start moving around, then there's no reason not to open up slowly. I personally think Ontario should start to look to open up sooner than they are, but their plan isn't fully fleshed out yet so I can see their apprehension.

COVID-19 is here to stay. Its something we're going to have to deal with in our medical system while we get back to normal routines within a COVID-19 environment. That means you may have a "new normal" but it doesn't mean keeping people in their homes for 6 more months to hope the virus disappears.

 

[OceanBonfire]

I haven't listened to their daily press conferences (mostly because my francais is not bon), but I follow Ontario quite closely. In Ontario there is a tale of 2 pandemics. One in LTC, and one in the community. The mortality rate is skewed heavily to the LTC in Ontario, where close quarters living arrangements are making the problem worse. The community isolation is working but we cannot keep a relatively low risk population locked down forever. Judging by the media reports, I'm willing to bet the same case is true for Quebec. The entire purpose of locking down the country was to keep cases from overwhelming the medical system, namely ICU and ward beds (that's what flatten the curve means). If they believe sufficient capacity exists to handle an uptick in infections once people start moving around, then there's no reason not to open up slowly. I personally think Ontario should start to look to open up sooner than they are, but their plan isn't fully fleshed out yet so I can see their apprehension.

COVID-19 is here to stay. Its something we're going to have to deal with in our medical system while we get back to normal routines within a COVID-19 environment. That means you may have a "new normal" but it doesn't mean keeping people in their homes for 6 more months to hope the virus disappears.

Reopen after significant improvement (i.e. New Brunswick), not when you're still topping the charts.

 

[Remius]

Reopen after significant improvement (i.e. New Brunswick), not when you're still topping the charts.

New Brunswick is also doing a phased approach after 2 weeks of no new cases.

 

[PuckChaser]

Reopen after significant improvement (i.e. New Brunswick), not when you're still topping the charts.

New Brunswick barely had an outbreak at all. They probably didn't even need to close. https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/corporate/promo/covid-19.html

I'll reiterate, if the province can handle the increase in cases due to relaxing lockdowns in a phased approach, they should immediately start doing that. COVID-19 is our new normal. We don't lock the country down during flu season, but we would if the hospitalization rate is trending to overwhelm the capacity of the system. The same rationale should apply here. No matter how hard we wish it, this isn't polio where we can just inoculate everyone and be done with it. We're maybe years away from that. Societies have lived through worse, we'll sort it out.

 

[OceanBonfire]

New Brunswick barely had an outbreak at all. They probably didn't even need to close. https://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/corporate/promo/covid-19.html

I'll reiterate, if the province can handle the increase in cases due to relaxing lockdowns in a phased approach, they should immediately start doing that. COVID-19 is our new normal. We don't lock the country down during flu season, but we would if the hospitalization rate is trending to overwhelm the capacity of the system. The same rationale should apply here. No matter how hard we wish it, this isn't polio where we can just inoculate everyone and be done with it. We're maybe years away from that. Societies have lived through worse, we'll sort it out.

Nowhere do I think that it's not the new normal. I actually agree it will be the new normal from now on. Quebec's reopening approach is too drastically early for a province that is just reaching the peak. While New Brunswick is among the bottom half of the chart with very few cases, they're still overly cautious in their reopening plan and Quebec should take example of that.

I guess I need to mention I'm very well aware about overhelming the healthcare system...

 

[FJAG]

Whitmer's pandemic orders were 'necessary,' court finds in denying injunction

The Michigan Court of Claims on Wednesday denied a motion for a preliminary injunction by several state residents who claimed that Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s executive actions related to the pandemic infringe on their constitutional rights.

In a complaint last week with the Michigan Court of Claims, five residents alleged that the “mandatory quarantine” imposed by the Stay Home, Stay Safe order and the intrastate travel restrictions contained in an earlier version violated their rights to both procedural due process and substantive due process.

A federal lawsuit filed this month against state officials argued provisions of the order were “arbitrary, capricious, irrational and abusive,” and said “the individual plaintiffs are prohibited from traveling freely within the state of Michigan, visiting family and friends, attending to or utilizing their privately owned property, and visiting their significant others.”

In his opinion and order Wednesday, Michigan Court of Claims Judge Christopher Murray said constitutional rights are “subject to reasonable regulation by the state.”

...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/04/29/judge-denies-injunction-whitmer-pandemic-stay-at-home-lawsuit/3053820001/

:cheers:

 

[OceanBonfire]

‘And then, boom’: Outbreak shows shaky ground as Texas opens

PARIS, Texas (AP) — Barely a week ago, rural Lamar County could make a pretty good argument for Texas’ reopening on Friday.

Only a handful of the 50,000 residents here, right on the border with Oklahoma, had tested positive for the coronavirus. None had died. The mayor of Paris, Texas — a pit stop for drivers passing through to snap a selfie with the city’s miniaturized Eiffel Tower — had drive-thru virus testing in the works, just to give locals peace of mind. Some wore masks but many saw little reason to bother.

Then an outbreak at a nursing home turned up over the weekend.


https://apnews.com/490aee062b36ab64c76c624f9674a89c

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Then an outbreak at a nursing home turned up over the weekend.

Stresses the importance of opening up pieces, not everything, and protecting some pieces strongly.  Protecting the elderly and other vulnerable people has been known specifically for a few weeks, and generally forever.  Even the Swedish "experiment" meant to do so, but the execution was mediocre in some places.

 

[mariomike]

I'm not a scientist. So, I can only say good luck with the re-openings. I'm sure they know what they are doing.

I recall when the SARS advisory in the GTA was lifted. One month later, the second wave hit.

Meanwhile, in Huntington Beach, CA
https://twitter.com/yellowredsparks/status/1256359598841139201

Big surprise,

Dr. Fauci can't testify.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fauci+testify&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj75crS-JPpAhVKHs0KHau9DiwQpwV6BAgLEBo&biw=1280&bih=641#spf=1588380018576

 

[Remius]

Big surprise,

Dr. Fauci can't testify.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fauci+testify&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj75crS-JPpAhVKHs0KHau9DiwQpwV6BAgLEBo&biw=1280&bih=641#spf=1588380018576

Some things never change.

 

[PuckChaser]

Political theatre. Trump isn't doing enough, he's not taking this seriously, people are dying. Lets hold congressional hearings and take his key medical advisor away from his actual job for hours to placate Congress. At least wait until the state of emergency is done before starting the burn Trump at the stake Congressional hearings.

 

[dapaterson]

Reopen Illinois.  I seem to recall 1939-1945 deciding the issue below...

https://twitter.com/Dennis_Kosuth/status/1256309653455003648

 

[Remius]

Reopen Illinois.  I seem to recall 1939-1945 deciding the issue below...

https://twitter.com/Dennis_Kosuth/status/1256309653455003648

A few opinion pieces that say the lockdown protests are about more than just the lockdowns.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/anti-lockdown-protests-trump-right-wing


and another side of that opinion

https://theweek.com/articles/910050/what-lockdown-protests-are-really-about


And one that is a bit more measured.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/opinion/coronavirus-lockdown-reopen-protests.html

 

[dapaterson]

Confederate and Nazi flags.  Assault weapons in the legislature.  Nazi slogans.

The messages are pretty clear.

And morally repugnant, and indicative of segments of American society who at my most charitable I can describe as having lost their way.

 

[mariomike]

And morally repugnant, and indicative of segments of American society who at my most charitable I can describe as having lost their way.

“We are told the American soldier does not know what he is fighting for. Now, at least, he knows what he is fighting against.”

General Dwight D. Eisenhower

1945

 

[OceanBonfire]

Conservative groups advising White House push fast reopening, not testing

Conservative groups advising the White House have issued an array of coronavirus economic reopening plans with a common theme - Americans should go back to work immediately to halt the economic and societal damage from prolonged lockdowns.

...

Both the White House and the groups advising it are missing detailed, centralized plans for virus testing and containment, which many health officials, historians, and economists say here are needed to avoid a new surge of infections and longer-term economic damage.

A Harvard University study here published last week argued that 5 million tests per day by early June would be needed to deliver a "safe social reopening." Such testing would need to ramp up to 20 million a day to fully remobilize the economy, the researchers said.

...


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-plans-analysis/conservative-groups-advising-white-house-push-fast-reopening-not-testing-idUSKBN22D6BD

 

[MilEME09]

If they reopen now while infections are still high, they will spike hard, it will turn into a worst case scenario potentially if they have no plan. Tens of thousands will die. The American health care system will collapse.

 

[Remius]

Confederate and Nazi flags.  Assault weapons in the legislature.  Nazi slogans.

The messages are pretty clear.

And morally repugnant, and indicative of segments of American society who at my most charitable I can describe as having lost their way.

I came across an article that explained that these extremist groups go to right wing rallies to make their own numbers seem larger, more mainstream and to try to recruit people they see as potentially susceptible and vulnerable to their messages on immigration and race. 

These lockdown protests seem to be by largely white, working class republicans and some maga types and are an opportunity by extremist to exploit a situation. 


Edited: changed to avoid offending certain members.

 

[RangerRay]

I came across an article that explained that these extremist groups go to right wing rallies to make their own numbers seem larger, more mainstream and to try to recruit people they see as potentially susceptible and vulnerable to their messages on immigration and race. 

These lockdown protests by largely white, working class republicans and maga types are seen as an opportunity to exploit a situation.

Well, the “mainstream” organizers have so far shown little effort to disavow or denounce these extremists, much like the present incarnation of the GOP. I have heard nothing but crickets.