CF position on poor academic history.

[TruthSeeker]

Hey, I thought I'd post here before I made my application, to get a better idea of what I'm in for.

I'm a second year Computer Science student at the University of Waterloo. The main reason I began this career path was intense pressure from my parents, and over the past two years I have tried and failed to make it work, but I just don't see the sense any more. I was in the Cadet program for several years, and I'll admit that basically everything I know about the military is from those experiences. I've always felt like the military would be the best fit for my abilities, talents and strengths, and my original plan was to do my degree at RMC (I had the marks for it in high school) until I was persuaded otherwise by my family.

I know that the Canadian Forces is very selective about whom they chose to employ, and that generally speaking, people who have failed elsewhere and try to join are weeded out or precluded entirely. But I wanted to know what the position of a CF recruiter would be on my situation. My university record isn't good, however I am a model citizen otherwise. I have no legal issues whatsoever, a perfect credit rating, no health issues to speak of. I believe I have what it takes to succeed in a career with the Forces, and more importantly I feel very strongly that I need the various personal advantages one gains with military training.

Will the military reject my application due to my academic failures? I'll openly admit that I don't know much about the military, but what I do know makes me worry that I'll be excluded purely on the basis of my education history.

I appreciate any and all input. Thank you in advance for your comments.

Sincerely,

Dan

 

[PuckChaser]

People leave school for any number of reasons. Just be prepared to explain why you left school, what you learned while you were there, and why you would be a good candidate for employment in the CF in your given trade. You can always take courses part-time to help finish your degree.

 

[kincanucks]

Hey, I thought I'd post here before I made my application, to get a better idea of what I'm in for.

I'm a second year Computer Science student at the University of Waterloo. The main reason I began this career path was intense pressure from my parents, and over the past two years I have tried and failed to make it work, but I just don't see the sense any more. I was in the Cadet program for several years, and I'll admit that basically everything I know about the military is from those experiences. I've always felt like the military would be the best fit for my abilities, talents and strengths, and my original plan was to do my degree at RMC (I had the marks for it in high school) until I was persuaded otherwise by my family.

I know that the Canadian Forces is very selective about whom they chose to employ, and that generally speaking, people who have failed elsewhere and try to join are weeded out or precluded entirely. But I wanted to know what the position of a CF recruiter would be on my situation. My university record isn't good, however I am a model citizen otherwise. I have no legal issues whatsoever, a perfect credit rating, no health issues to speak of. I believe I have what it takes to succeed in a career with the Forces, and more importantly I feel very strongly that I need the various personal advantages one gains with military training.

Will the military reject my application due to my academic failures? I'll openly admit that I don't know much about the military, but what I do know makes me worry that I'll be excluded purely on the basis of my education history.

I appreciate any and all input. Thank you in advance for your comments.

Sincerely,

Dan

Actually you know nothing about the military as it pertains to how we recruit at least. Go and apply and see what happens.  You are worried based on some BS you picked up somewhere.

 

[Pusser]

Actually you know nothing about the military as it pertains to how we recruit at least. Go and apply and see what happens.  You are worried based on some BS you picked up somewhere.

Why are you jumping on the poor guy?  The fact that he's been misled isn't his fault.  I've met plenty of folks who have the same impressions and many of them are on this forum!  He's asking for advice from a recruiter.  Are you a recruiter?  If not, then maybe you should try being a little more positive.  If you can't say anything nice...  Hopefully you know the rest.

Now, in answer to the actual question and I'll state that I am not a recruiter, but I have been recruited, so I can comment from that perspective.  As a general rule, no one expects you to have led a perfect life.  We recognize that people can make mistakes.  The fact that your not a computer science wizard does not mean you can't do something else.  I would, however, recommend you not try to convince anyone you would be an excellent candidate for any occupation requiring computer science skills!  Go to the Recruiting Centre and talk to them.  Tell them everything and see where that takes you.  The fact that you did well in high school will still mean something, just make it clear that you chose the wrong program in university and wish to start again.

 

[medicineman]

Are you a recruiter? 

Until not too long ago, yes he was.

MM

 

[Pusser]

Until not too long ago, yes he was.

MM

Hmmm.

 

[Nauticus]

Hey, I thought I'd post here before I made my application, to get a better idea of what I'm in for.

I'm a second year Computer Science student at the University of Waterloo. The main reason I began this career path was intense pressure from my parents, and over the past two years I have tried and failed to make it work, but I just don't see the sense any more. I was in the Cadet program for several years, and I'll admit that basically everything I know about the military is from those experiences. I've always felt like the military would be the best fit for my abilities, talents and strengths, and my original plan was to do my degree at RMC (I had the marks for it in high school) until I was persuaded otherwise by my family.

I know that the Canadian Forces is very selective about whom they chose to employ, and that generally speaking, people who have failed elsewhere and try to join are weeded out or precluded entirely. But I wanted to know what the position of a CF recruiter would be on my situation. My university record isn't good, however I am a model citizen otherwise. I have no legal issues whatsoever, a perfect credit rating, no health issues to speak of. I believe I have what it takes to succeed in a career with the Forces, and more importantly I feel very strongly that I need the various personal advantages one gains with military training.

Will the military reject my application due to my academic failures? I'll openly admit that I don't know much about the military, but what I do know makes me worry that I'll be excluded purely on the basis of my education history.

I appreciate any and all input. Thank you in advance for your comments.

Sincerely,

Dan

They will not reject your file based on that, but they may or may not take it into account during the application process. Remember, it's easy to say that you've got what it takes, but you also felt you had what it takes to do the university, and it failed.

Note: I'm not saying you don't have what it takes for the military, but evidence otherwise is not readily available based on your background.

None of this means you won't get an offer. Nobody is perfect. Every single new recruit has a flaw in one way or another, and that's fine. If you're in good shape, have solid work experience, volunteer experience, and references, you may still be a strong candidate.

 

[kincanucks]

Why are you jumping on the poor guy?  The fact that he's been misled isn't his fault.  I've met plenty of folks who have the same impressions and many of them are on this forum!  He's asking for advice from a recruiter.  Are you a recruiter?  If not, then maybe you should try being a little more positive.  If you can't say anything nice...  Hopefully you know the rest.

Now, in answer to the actual question and I'll state that I am not a recruiter, but I have been recruited, so I can comment from that perspective.  As a general rule, no one expects you to have led a perfect life.  We recognize that people can make mistakes.  The fact that your not a computer science wizard does not mean you can't do something else.  I would, however, recommend you not try to convince anyone you would be an excellent candidate for any occupation requiring computer science skills!  Go to the Recruiting Centre and talk to them.  Tell them everything and see where that takes you.  The fact that you did well in high school will still mean something, just make it clear that you chose the wrong program in university and wish to start again.

I am sorry next time I will sugar coat my responses with please and don't worry about it. And take your hmmm and hopefully you know the rest.

 

[ekpiper]

I am sorry next time I will sugar coat my responses with please and don't worry about it. And take your hmmm and hopefully you know the rest.

Kincanucks,

Like it or not, this website is a fairly prominent result on Google, depending on your search criteria, and it is also the most obvious URL.  As a result, we get a lot of people who have no idea what is involved coming here.  As has been asked here before, why do many condemn those taking the initiative to ask for more information?  He has come here, humbly admitting that he doesn't know much, posted in a clear and grammatically correct manner, and he wants to join.  People will use these initial experiences as a part of their decision of whether or not to join, and while we can tell them to search and to go to a recruiting center, we needn't be grumpy and unpleasant.

With regards to the response quoted above, that is also way over the top.  Your knowledge and experience, as stated in your profile are obviously valuable.  Use it for positive applications to help others, as we all should.

ekpiper

 

[kincanucks]

Kincanucks,

Like it or not, this website is a fairly prominent result on Google, depending on your search criteria, and it is also the most obvious URL.  As a result, we get a lot of people who have no idea what is involved coming here.  As has been asked here before, why do many condemn those taking the initiative to ask for more information?  He has come here, humbly admitting that he doesn't know much, posted in a clear and grammatically correct manner, and he wants to join.  People will use these initial experiences as a part of their decision of whether or not to join, and while we can tell them to search and to go to a recruiting center, we needn't be grumpy and unpleasant.

With regards to the response quoted above, that is also way over the top.  Your knowledge and experience, as stated in your profile are obviously valuable.  Use it for positive applications to help others, as we all should.

ekpiper

Well thank you ekpiper for your sage advice and counsel.  I don't know how I made this far without it.  Cheers.

Truthseeker - if I have offended you in anyway with my rather harsh response on your search for answers, please accept my humblest apologies.  Please take your case to the nearest CFRC and they will provide you with a honest assessment of your suitability. Cheers.

Now that I have provided work for the resident moral compasses perhaps we can shut this one down.

 

[Sapplicant]

Actually you know nothing about the military as it pertains to how we recruit at least. Go and apply and see what happens.

Best answer on the thread, containing the best course of action, too. Go apply, and see what happens. Real life people give much better answers than internet people, but as far as internet answers go, this is choice. Don't be so quick to jump on Kincanucks people. As far as nasty remarks go, this doesn't even register.

 

[dev_tech]

So much anger.  Just apply.  You'll either get a call or you won't.
Questions can be answered without rage-mode engaged.

 

[Journeyman]

As far as nasty remarks go, this doesn't even register.

I concur.

Saying, 'you don't know about military recruiting, so go to a recruiter' is too harsh?!  : 

 

[Kat Stevens]

Time for the Carebear Stare?

 

[PMedMoe]

Time for the Carebear Stare?

 

[Searyn]

Actually you know nothing about the military as it pertains to how we recruit at least. Go and apply and see what happens.  You are worried based on some BS you picked up somewhere.

There is a difference between being concise and being unnecessarily rude. Also, there is a difference between being polite and being a care bear. You don't have to be a care bear to be polite.

kincanucks was concise right up until his swearing (yes BS is still swearing) made the rest of his post seem more rude than short and to the point. That would probably be why Pusser felt it necessary to say something. (correct me if I'm wrong Pusser, that's just how your reply to kincanucks came across to me)



Yes talking to a recruiter is always "a" right answer, also simply applying will clear up any questions *after the fact*. However the OP didn't ask weather he should apply at all, he asked a question that would give him an idea of weather or not his application would stand a chance of being accepted *prior* to applying based on his past educational transgressions.

Simply saying "Go and apply and see what happens" doesn't actually answer his question, and doesn't help his situation in any way, shape, or form.

If you want to help a stranger out give a proper answer to the question! If you don't want to help them out and belittle them instead (by swearing or phrasing your reply in such a way that the OP feels stupid), why even bother replying? Isn't being unnecessarily rude against the "Tone and Conduct" guidelines for this site?


Personally I'm slightly concerned about my past grades also. That's why I even read this thread. Seeing it full of petty bickering, like most of the threads in the recruiting section, was disappointing. Especially since most of the sarcastic and/or belittling comments or replys that support someone who was being sarcastic and/or belittling seem to come from people with 500+ posts.

Once again, if you don't want to actually help the people who have questions, no matter how silly and inconsequential they seem to you, why do you even bother to post a reply?

Puckchaser has the best response to Truthseekers question since he's the only one so far who has actually answered the question.

"People leave school for any number of reasons. Just be prepared to explain why you left school, what you learned while you were there, and why you would be a good candidate for employment in the CF in your given trade. You can always take courses part-time to help finish your degree."

 

[aesop081]

Simply saying "Go and apply and see what happens" doesn't actually answer his question,

I dont see the problem. It is the only possible course of action if the OP wants to join.

 

[Journeyman]

Actually you know nothing about the military as it pertains to how we recruit at least. Go and apply and see what happens.  You are worried based on some BS you picked up somewhere.

kincanucks was concise right up until his swearing (yes BS is still swearing) made the rest of his post seem more rude than short and to the point.

Seriously?
This is the post you're going to use as a rallying cry for "web niceness"? You believe, "you are worried based on some BS you picked up somewhere," is belittling because he included the expression 'BS'?

It's not like he even said TruthSeeker was BS'ing, rather he was merely basing his worries on some BS, or factual inaccuracy, he'd acquired. That's not remotely belittling or sarcastic.

As for your heartache with people saying, repeatedly it seems, "ask a recruiter because only they can judge your individual circumstances"  -- you believe it's better to make life plans based on anonymous posts to the internet (or at least, the feel-good posts and not those harsh ones), or to find out the answer to specific cases from those who actually know the current regulations and policies in effect (hint - recruiters)?

Especially since most of the sarcastic and/or belittling comments or replys [sic] that support someone who was being sarcastic and/or belittling seem to come from people with 500+ posts.

First off, I suspect "500+ posts" is a red herring; I believe you mean, "people with actual time serving in the military."

Either way, you are saying that support for other people's comments are only acceptable if you, Searyn, agree with the comment. If you feel a comment is sarcastic and/or belittling, anyone with '500+ posts' who disagrees should just shut up. Please google both "political correctness" and "presumptuousness."


Now, assuming you've found my response to your derail of the topic too sarcastic or belittling, you can:
a) silently ponder life's inevitable harshness, while growing a thicker skin;
b) read this thread, then come back with another hand-wringing missive; or
c) use the Report to Mod function, if you feel their intervention will help.


Edit: Punctuation; it matters 

 

[ballz]

I don't want to get in on the carebears vs. a$$holes argument, there's already enough of them around.

But I guess here is as good a place to voice this as any:

Does anybody else ever consider that not everybody wants to talk to a recruiter because they represent a "salesman." I'm not going to voice my opinion on recruiting and stuff one way or another, I've got nothing but my own personal experience anyway, but the actual perspective of a person with no military family / interaction that's considering joining?

Who goes to a GM dealership to ask if they should buy a GM? You'd probably ask a couple buddies that own a GM first.

Just something that's bugged me for a while I figured I'd throw it out there.

 

[Journeyman]

Derail continues....

Does anybody else ever consider that not everybody wants to talk to a recruiter because they represent a "salesman." I'm not going to voice my opinion on recruiting and stuff one way or another, I've got nothing but my own personal experience anyway, but the actual perspective of a person with no military family / interaction that's considering joining?

Who goes to a GM dealership to ask if they should buy a GM? You'd probably ask a couple buddies that own a GM first.

Then those people should be READING the many threads on various trades in the Army, Navy or Air Force sections of the site.

If they're posting questions in the recruiting threads, they've already decided they want a car rather than a donkey or a camel. Reading the questions, most are looking for answers on either car loan applications (talk to a recruiter banker to see if you qualify), or why they should bother getting a driver's licence, since they totally rock at playing Grand Theft Auto (sarcasm/belittling).

Many recruiting questions posted are legitimate and get answered, or the poster is pointed where to look.

The irritating questions, however, fall into two categories:

1) generic questions that have been asked/answered dozens of times, but the poster is too lazy to search and thinks the site members owe them an answer; eg - "can I bring my cat, 'muffy,' with me to BMQ?"

2) specific questions that only a currently-serving recruiter could answer, and then, likely only once the process (eg - pre-requisites met, CFAT, medical) has begun; eg - "I live on anti-depressants but I'd make a great JTF2 sniper pilot, can I get a Prior-Learning waiver for my time in therapy?"

If you're going to post either types of question, you may not get the loving reception you believe you've earned.

And if you believe that Kincanuck's response was belittling, then you're not likely going to be satisfied with any response here -- you're joining the military, not a commune; toughen up a bit.