CFHA Residential Housing Unit (RHU)-old PMQ [MERGED]

[Reccesoldier]

Sorry, with Pte Recruits earning $30,000/year and Cpl/Mcpl earning $50,000 a year why the hell should DND provide ANY accommodations?  The private sector will provide what it is in their best interests to provide.  As long as DND undercuts private rentals then there will be a shortage of private rentals.  And an offshoot of a private system is that there will probably be more jobs for dependants.

 

[PMedMoe]

I also do not think the prioritization of the available PMQs is being done correctly;  IMO, a 'family' should have the first shot over single people with no dependants (as defined by the CF).

I disagree.  IMO, that is discrimination based on marital status.  I, for one, think it's about time they got rid of the "outdated" rules.  The priority idea Strike mentioned seems (a bit more) fair.  It's one thing to be bumped on a waiting list, but quite another to be settled in your home, only to be told you have to move because someone else needs it.  Don't see that happening anywhere else, so why should CFHA be any different?

 

[Sub_Guy]

I disagree.  IMO, that is discrimination based on marital status. 

Single people can live in Barracks, families can't, therefore the rule makes sense and it has nothing to do with discrimination.  Don't like it? Have a kid then join the happy bunch living in Q's.

PMQ's were not designed for single people to live it up with roomies, they were designed for families.  It does depend on the base but single people can get the smaller 2 bedroom PMQ's, but don't expect the 4 bedroom.

As for PMQ rent I thought it was written that they can't charge you more than 25% of your pay? 

 

[dangerboy]

For PMQ rent it depends on the base.  For example here are the rates for CFB Shilo:

House Type      No. Bdrms      No. Units    sq. ft.        Shelter Charge
Single house    4                      6          1266-1882    $495 - $815
Single house    3                    126          1066-1560    $425 - $640
Single house    2                    78            730-1195      $405 - $510

Row house      3                    120          1004-1080    $415 - $425

Duplex              4                  138            1266-1642        $465 - $650
Duplex              3                  226          1052-1560        $425 - $635
Duplex              2                    4                974                  $440

Link:http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/locations/shilo_h_e.asp

 

[PMedMoe]

Single people can live in Barracks, families can't, therefore the rule makes sense and it has nothing to do with discrimination.  Don't like it? Have a kid then join the happy bunch living in Q's.

PMQ's were not designed for single people to live it up with roomies, they were designed for families.

I have a child and I have lived in PMQs.  Hopefully, I will never have to live there again. 

Yes, single people can live in barracks and married people can go rent/buy a house elsewhere.  There are single people who have no wish to get married and/or have children who may want to live in more than one room with a shared bath and no choice on where to eat if you can't delink from the rations.

Also, not all single people who live in Qs are out there "partying with their roomies".  As a matter of fact, I knew more married people with kids who were doing that in the North Side of Petawawa.  Maybe the single people want out of the shacks for just that reason.

Oh, and it is discrimination:

treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit

Also, according to the Maple Leaf article link that AirMich posted, there is no longer "single" and "married" quarters.

Anyway, this doesn't answer the original question.  I know they're tearing down a lot of PMQs in Kingston with no intention of replacing them.  A lot of them were empty for quite some time.  I guess if the demand is not there, why waste money keeping them?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And here is Gagetowns for comparison.

Total Married Quarters - 1616

House Type No. Bdrms No. Units sq. ft. Shelter Charge Single house 4 66 1121-1882 $605 - $770 Single house 3 477 822-1390 $495 - $655 Single house 2 193 627-916 $450 - $495 Row house 4 113 979-1143 $385 - $500 Row house 3 499 791-899 $365 - $400 Duplex 4 100 1128-1393 $560 - $665 Duplex 3 166 850-1356 $480 - $660 Duplex 2 2 809 $490 Note: Information on this page is no longer current as of April 1, 2008 and is in the process of being updated. Thank-you for your patience. EDITED TO ADD: There are 253 MQs with garages

 

[Sub_Guy]

Yeah every base is different with the rent, but they can't charge more that 25% of the gross family income. 

I do not see where the discrimination (way to work the google and locate a definition for me) comes in the picture because everyone can apply for a PMQ, it is based on household size and nothing else.  A single person can apply like everyone else and if there is availability you will get the PMQ, I know a single fella who just got a PMQ in Greenwood. 
Small family = smaller PMQ
Brady Bunch = larger PMQ

Also, not all single people who live in Qs are out there "partying with their roomies".  As a matter of fact, I knew more married people with kids who were doing that in the North Side of Petawawa.  Maybe the single people want out of the shacks for just that reason.

I see you have meet my brother!

I too have wondered why they are tearing down houses, especially in Greenwood they demolished an entire area of PMQ's near Dwight Ross, that area is vacant now, and there were quite a few row houses there.  It just seems typical of anything related to the CF, the lack of foresight. 
We downsize and get rid of stuff, the runway at Shearwater, Chinooks, tanks, and PMQ's....  Then it turns out that we need all those things and we have to fight to get them back.  Instead of just keeping everything "just in case".

 

[George Wallace]

Actually the "M" now stands for Military...Private Military Quarters.  This changed last year I believe.

Just wondering what they changed ESQs (formerly Enhanced Single Quarters) name to?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I disagree.  IMO, that is discrimination based on marital status.  I, for one, think it's about time they got rid of the "outdated" rules.   The priority idea Strike mentioned seems (a bit more) fair.  It's one thing to be bumped on a waiting list, but quite another to be settled in your home, only to be told you have to move because someone else needs it.  Don't see that happening anywhere else, so why should CFHA be any different?

I was unclear in my post.  To clarify, an example.  2 files come into the CFHA office on the same day, for the last PMQ.  One is a single family, service mbr is a Pte/Cpl with a stay at home mom and 1-2 children.  The other is for a single Cpl, no dependants.  The family, IMO, should get the PMQ.  However, I do not think that people already in a PMQ should be getting bumped out if they are already occupants.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I know they're tearing down a lot of PMQs in Kingston with no intention of replacing them.  A lot of them were empty for quite some time.  I guess if the demand is not there, why waste money keeping them?

A friend of mine was in the Qs up there while on course for an extende period and had no complaints, while another friend of mine had nothing but truoble with his PMQ.  I think the demand is decreasing as more people can afford to pay a mortgage, with PLD and pay raises??

 

[Franko]

Anyway, this doesn't answer the original question.  I know they're tearing down a lot of PMQs in Kingston with no intention of replacing them.  A lot of them were empty for quite some time.  I guess if the demand is not there, why waste money keeping them?

There is a waiting list for the Qs in Pet, Edmonton....thus a demand. Hence my question.     

Regards

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Seems like a CF thing.  They are tearing down Q's here as well without rebuilding new ones.  They are tearing down all the empty ones with steam heating.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

For PMQ rent it depends on the base.  For example here are the rates for CFB Shilo:

House Type      No. Bdrms      No. Units    sq. ft.        Shelter Charge
Single house    4                      6          1266-1882    $495 - $815
Single house    3                    126          1066-1560    $425 - $640
Single house    2                    78            730-1195      $405 - $510

Row house      3                    120          1004-1080    $415 - $425

Duplex              4                  138            1266-1642        $465 - $650
Duplex              3                  226          1052-1560        $425 - $635
Duplex              2                    4                974                  $440

These rents aren't bad, try getting a mortgage for a 4 bedroom 1800 square foot house for $815.00 a month without a huge downpayment, good luck!

From what I can see here the rates are pretty reasonable, at least in Shilo.

 

[HItorMiss]

You're right that wouldn't be bad, except that private home would be up to code and my dishes wouldn't have frost on them in the winter on the outside facing wall....Cathcing my drift on that?

 

[gwp]

As pretty much everyone here in Petawawa knows there is a severe lack of PMQs for service families, as it is at so many bases across Canada.

This has been ongoing for quite some time and has been getting worse as time marches on. More recruits with families getting in because of the recruiting push etc.

There are still single fellas and gals putting in for and getting PMQ with room mates as well. I have no problem with this as long as families have priority.

My question is:     Why is CFHA tearing down row houses and not building new ones?\

It may be useful to read the annual report of CFHA found here

http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/info/whatsnew_e.asp

along with some of the other links.   

Also these recent articles in Maple Leaf

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/article_e.asp?id=3217

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Community/mapleleaf/article_e.asp?id=4546

Terms PMQs/MQs have been replaced with DND Residential Housing, Residential Housing Units (RHU) referring to the individual unit, Residential Housing Sites (RHS) replacing the PMQ patch, and Residential Housing Area (RHA) used to define specifics areas within a site (i.e. sports fields, empty areas) and used primarily for custodianship purposes. Single quarters/barracks will now be known as DND Quarters in which three categories will exist—residential quarters, training quarters and transient quarters.

 

[JBP]

Wow, I guess I'm just stupid lucky... I was 'issued' a PMQ for my wife and I and it's not bad at all! It was apparently (the neighbours say) renovated like crazy for quite a few months before I moved in. New insulation, paint, doors+windows+trim+screws and all. Only thing not renovated was the ancient kitchen with barely any counter space, almost adequate cupboards and a single sink. Oh and the floors look like if they weren't replaced they've been re-finished and new carpet installed on the stairs.

I'm in a 3 bedroom PMQ of 890sq ft (living space, so smallish) in Edmonton and with rent of $670, hardwood floors and an almost new interior basically. For me, in this area, it's a steal considering a 1 bedroom apartment can go for $1000/month! I'm happy for now, but I have a feeling the rent might possibly keep increasing each year at least somewhat. When I arrived here it was $585/month...

PS> Same problem in Edmonton, not enough Q's, and none being built, at ALL. Which I've been wondering about for a long time...

 

[Sub_Guy]

I was unclear in my post.  To clarify, an example.  2 files come into the CFHA office on the same day, for the last PMQ.  One is a single family, service mbr is a Pte/Cpl with a stay at home mom and 1-2 children.  The other is for a single Cpl, no dependants.  The family, IMO, should get the PMQ.  However, I do not think that people already in a PMQ should be getting bumped out if they are already occupants.

The family will get the PMQ, it is based on family size, thats the policy there is nothing discriminatory about that at all.  As for guys getting bumped out, from reading the CFHA website Pri 3 (Opportunity Occupants)  personnel could be given 30 days to vacate, at their own expense.  Pri 1 and Pri 2 occupants will not be bumped out.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

You're right that wouldn't be bad, except that private home would be up to code and my dishes wouldn't have frost on them in the winter on the outside facing wall....Cathcing my drift on that?

I to lived in my share of shoddy PMQ's, but the rent in the Q's were always far below what was charged on the economy. In Gagetown we had a nice row house, but in Winnipeg we lived in a "Flinstones slab" PMQ on the north side that in the winnipeg winters, we had to put plastic over our windows just to keep the heat in, but again we only paid less than 1/2 of what people paid for a 2 bedroom appt in the city. They may not be all mansions but the rent charged also compensates for that. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be kept in good repair, but that has been a problem for decades since they were built and i'm sure many have fallen into major disrepair. The military has never been able to properly manage housing and I think its time they give it over to the private sector like the Ausies have done.

I have 3 bdrm 1500 SF home here in London ontario and I can tell you that I could rent two of these Q's for what i'm paying each month on my mortgage.

 

[kratz]

I have 3 bdrm 1500 SF home here in London Ontario and I can tell you that I could rent two of these Q's for what I'm paying each month on my mortgage.

This is one reason why the military needs to retain a PMQ capability. Members are sent to these areas where a new sailor/soldier with a family and related debits can not yet afford some of the high (not to mention inflated) rates in some cities.  Yes,  a $30,000 to $50,000 GYE looks great on paper, but when factoring the local market and having to commute an hour to work and/or rely on car pooling or public transit on top of the commute, the drawbacks of the current PMQs are minor in the savings toward being able to purchase a home later in one's career.

 

[Celticgirl]

What about single parents? Do they qualify for PMQs? Or is a spouse actually required?  8)