CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[Underway]

First Air Operations Officer Embarked on Naval Deployment

Since its departure in June, His Majesty’s Canadian Ship (HMCS) Vancouver has hosted the first Air Operations Officer (AOO) to sail aboard a ship since the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) announced the establishment of the occupation in 2019.

www.canada.ca

Interesting article on how Air Operations Officers can improve/help the air det do their thing.

I suspect Operational deficiency paperwork will also be done by them instead of one of the poor ACSOs! Not sure about them being a HELAIR Det OIC though. They are probably missing the tactical knowledge for real high performance but representing the actual OIC during crew rest is a great idea.

 

[dimsum]

First Air Operations Officer Embarked on Naval Deployment

Since its departure in June, His Majesty’s Canadian Ship (HMCS) Vancouver has hosted the first Air Operations Officer (AOO) to sail aboard a ship since the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) announced the establishment of the occupation in 2019.

www.canada.ca

Interesting article on how Air Operations Officers can improve/help the air det do their thing.

I suspect Operational deficiency paperwork will also be done by them instead of one of the poor ACSOs! Not sure about them being a HELAIR Det OIC though. They are probably missing the tactical knowledge for real high performance but representing the actual OIC during crew rest is a great idea.

I’ll defer to others on the nuts and bolts but from what I have seen from DETCO duties, a large part of it is the admin and other non-flying stuff. That stuff can be taken on by an AOO.

I’m not MH but DETCOs don’t dictate tactics - that’s the crew.

 

[Lumber]

I’ll defer to others on the nuts and bolts but from what I have seen from DETCO duties, a large part of it is the admin and other non-flying stuff. That stuff can be taken on by an AOO.

I’m not MH but DETCOs don’t dictate tactics - that’s the crew.

Yes but both the CO and OROs rely heavily on the advice and expertise of the DETCO on matters of how to employ the helo, its caps and lims, etc. Sure, they could get that from the most experienced other member of the det, but if they are all Capts, they probably don't have the same amount of experience as a Maj.

 

[dimsum]

Yes but both the CO and OROs rely heavily on the advice and expertise of the DETCO on matters of how to employ the helo, its caps and lims, etc. Sure, they could get that from the most experienced other member of the det, but if they are all Capts, they probably don't have the same amount of experience as a Maj.

Fair. That’s different to the LRP world where sometimes the DETCO doesn’t go on the mission.

 

[Lumber]

Fair. That’s different to the LRP world where sometimes the DETCO doesn’t go on the mission.

Yea, the crew was always really good at answering questions on how things are supposed to be done, but it was always the AirO who was able to answer the much more difficult (and sometimes completely hypothetical) what if questions.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yea, the crew was always really good at answering questions on how things are supposed to be done, but it was always the AirO who was able to answer the much more difficult (and sometimes completely hypothetical) what if questions.

It would be difficult for an AOO to be a HELAIRDET Comd. Very difficult.

 

[Sf2]

An AERE acted as a Det Comd in Tac Hel on an overseas operation. That person did very well and is now the CO of a 1 Wing sqn.

 

[KevinB]

And here I came looking for a meme that apparently has Reddit ablaze.

/disappointed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And here I came looking for a meme that apparently has Reddit ablaze.

/disappointed.

The one about the rumor of canceling the Cyclone contract ?

 

[OldSolduer]

The one about the rumor of canceling the Cyclone contract ?

I am again dismayed but not surprised that we fucked things up so badly.

WE means Canada.....

 

[Jc066]

I am again dismayed but not surprised that we fucked things up so badly.

WE means Canada.....

Ummm, What?

Someone have a link to this RUMINT or is it worst than that?

 

[Baz]

Yea, the crew was always really good at answering questions on how things are supposed to be done, but it was always the AirO who was able to answer the much more difficult (and sometimes completely hypothetical) what if questions.

I was never a det commander (useful idiot ashore and all that) but in my, albeit dated, experience, either crew commander could do that. If you happened to have one Pilot and one TACCO crew commander so much the better.

There was a time when it was somewhat common that both crew commanders would be multiple tour. Then there was a time, starting in the 2000s, it was common they were both first tour.

I’m surprised they’ve found room for AOOs… I remover the ship’s being PO’d about HELTAS det shaving four TACCOs. If it wasn’t so hard to knit aircrew I’d rather have a second tour post crew commander TACCO as an extra det member.

 

[armrdsoul77]

Watching a video of the Ch149 landing and refueling on a floating oil platform so they could increase their search radius the pilot was able to negatively pitch the rotor blades to "stick" the helicopter to the landing platform. Is this also a capability of the Ch148? or the Sea King?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

All helicopters I am aware can go negative pitch on the rotor blades.

I was in a Sea King sitting on the pad at Cape Scott Lighthouse. There was a 40 knot wind in our face. The only thing keeping us on the pad was the pilots almost literally sitting on the collective…

 

[Good2Golf]

All helicopters I am aware can go negative pitch on the rotor blades.

I was in a Sea King sitting on the pad at Cape Scott Lighthouse. There was a 40 knot wind in our face. The only thing keeping us on the pad was the pilots almost literally sitting on the collective…

Additional datapoints:

Griffon - no, Chinook - yes.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Thank-you, G2G!

 

[Good2Golf]

Thank-you, G2G!

Not sure it’s a 100% accurate ‘rule,’ but it seems that fully-articulated heads can put on negative pitch. Teetering (Kiowa or Hueys) or Soft-in-Plane (Griffon) don’t. Certainly on teetering heads I can see why you wouldn’t want that…floppy-teetery-chop-chop thing with negative lift in same direction as gravity.

 

[Lumber]

All helicopters I am aware can go negative pitch on the rotor blades.

I was in a Sea King sitting on the pad at Cape Scott Lighthouse. There was a 40 knot wind in our face. The only thing keeping us on the pad was the pilots almost literally sitting on the collective…

Funny, the pilots always said they would do the opposite during a TCM.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Funny, the pilots always said they would do the opposite during a TCM.

So, that is the rolling motion of the ship that will kill us in a heartbeat.

Google “Dynamic Rollover”.

In the Sea King, once the ship went past 10 degrees of roll, we ran out of control authority to keep it upright. Past 15 degrees, an untrapped (or unchained) Sea King would roll uncontrollably into the ocean. The numbers aren’t super different for a Cyclone.

Plus, we want nothing to do with a ship, if a torpedo is inbound.

TCM=dying tired….

 

[Lumber]

So, that is the rolling motion of the ship that will kill us in a heartbeat.

Google “Dynamic Rollover”.

In the Sea King, once the ship went past 10 degrees of roll, we ran out of control authority to keep it upright. Past 15 degrees, an untrapped (or unchained) Sea King would roll uncontrollably into the ocean. The numbers aren’t super different for a Cyclone.

Plus, we want nothing to do with a ship, if a torpedo is inbound.

TCM=dying tired….

Sorry, I should have ended my post with #sarcasm and was hoping someone who knew what I was referring to would get the joke lol