Close Protection Training

[QV]

I don't need to ask any of the CP guys. I was the Deputy Task Force Provost Marshal on Roto 2. Yeah, it wasn't the 100% solution, but it was a great success in the view that they already had the mentality, and required a lot less training than even bringing in another non-CP trained MP. It allowed you folks to get on with a lot of jobs that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to do because of manpower issues. And while you're wonderful drivers, and I'd stack you up against anyone, we don't have the numbers to sustain everything at this point. Until those numbers increase, or they increase the numbers of the branch, it's going to be a struggle and we're going to continue to look for other solutions.

So you didn't do the job but you are qualified to make decisions about it without asking the guys actually doing the job?  That is problem number 1 in our org.  No disrespect, just speaking my mind here.  As far as the augmentees go, that is definately not the way to go and it caused a number of problems - some minor some major.  But that was the solution at the time for a crappy manning problem.  No big deal, no body got hurt, hopefully we don't have to repeat that ever again. 

So why MSE Ops?  What do they bring to the table as far as important skills go?  They arn't bringing driving skills since they have to be trained to drive all over again.  I know what a medic or signaller would bring - much needed and important skills that MPs don't normally have already and something they won't learn before going. 

 

[captjtq]

So you didn't do the job but you are qualified to make decisions about it without asking the guys actually doing the job?  That is problem number 1 in our org.  No disrespect, just speaking my mind here.  As far as the augmentees go, that is definately not the way to go and it caused a number of problems - some minor some major.  But that was the solution at the time for a crappy manning problem.  No big deal, no body got hurt, hopefully we don't have to repeat that ever again. 

So why MSE Ops?  What do they bring to the table as far as important skills go?  They arn't bringing driving skills since they have to be trained to drive all over again.  I know what a medic or signaller would bring - much needed and important skills that MPs don't normally have already and something they won't learn before going.   

No, I don't do the job. But I have had enough exposure to it, and the PM had enough access to SME (The CP Major and the Captains who were in theatre) who spearheaded the effort to ensure that you were able to do your jobs over there, and recommended that we go this way. I never heard a complaint until I saw your post. If it was such a horrible idea, and caused so many problems, how come we never heard about it at the time? Probably because you understood the reasoning behind it, I guess. That said, you're right - it was a quick fix, one that hopefully more courses and qualified CP folks will alleviate.

Why MSE Ops? Because there are not enough MPs to fill all of the tasks internationally (not just over there). It's not a matter of MPs not being good enough to do the job, or the fact that they're trained any better at driving, but that they need more bodies. Someone high up in your world must have made the recommendation higher in Ottawa for them to recruit from the MSE Op trade. I do agree with you on the Medical and Sigs side as well. While TCCC training might be very good, it doesn't replace a medic.

Incidentally, I do hope to change the fact that I don't personally do the job, or at least haven't been trained. A few close friends who were over there as CP have been trying hard to convince me for a while to come over to the dark side - with fair success.  ;D I saw the job you were doing, and it seemed like the best one for MPs anywhere...

 

[KevinB]

TCCS - does give a better cbt medic than the medic trade (unless you stealing a 6A or 6B medic)
Comms -- uhm -- I would have though any meatheat passed QL3 should know how to talk on the radio.

CP/PSD is not magic science -- and realistically the military won't do it properly either anyway.

Since your short numbers - If you can make it a subtrade and make it a remuster.
I would suggest that your better off recruting from the CF internally and running them thru a 1-2 month PSD/CP course -- plusas a precursor send them to a real driving course (Tony Scotti, BSR, etc.) and a shooting course (BW or MidSouth) for a bit too -- so they have the skills to be employed on a course.

The MP trade needs to understand that the EP methods that they had secured elsehwere are not CP/PSD and they need to adapt. 


Factor in all the high value entities with still get DHTC cadre

 

[garb811]

The MP trade needs to understand that the EP methods that they had secured elsewhere are not CP/PSD and they need to adapt. 

The Branch did not make this assumption and was aware that there was no in Branch capability to conduct this task when initially re-tasked.  ie. as you've alluded to, MSG do protection but IAW the MOU between DFAIT and DND, MSG do not conduct CPP and are limited to providing Escort only (although in some places the line is obviously very fuzzy and some guys push the envelope).  Currently guys going to certain places are going to outside locations and organizations for enhanced training prior to deployment but as far as I know, this is still not to CPP standards due to the MOU restriction.

Back in the 80's, MP were trained initially by the UK experts and maintained the capability via in-house courses with outside SME assistance from the UK until the task was assumed by Dwyer Hill.  When the capability was re-tasked to the Branch the initial candidates were screened and selected IAW RMP standards and then trained by the RMP.  I won't comment on the current conduct of CPP training as it's not my bag and I haven't kept up on it.

I'm 100% in agreement that this mandate would be best served by a nondedicated MP unit with candidates drawn from across the CF.  Unfortunately it has become the flavour of the day in the Branch and it is having a detrimental effect by taking time, resources and personnel away from what should be our core competencies.

 

[QV]

captjtq,

There were no complaints at the time because we thought it was a good temp fix also ... but after time, us guys on the ground learned that it was not such a good idea at all.  But I am not going into details about that here.   

Infidel-6,

Anyone can talk on a radio.  But programming/fixing/calibrating (whatever) encrypted radios, and having a good general knowledge about some of the foriegn radios we used would have helped out a lot.  Where I was we didn't have a CDN Sigs guy just around the corner to assist.  As far as Ticks radio equipment.... none of us knew how to use it - but that didn't matter because there was no one else to talk to on that system where we were anyway. 

Initially CP training was done in in the UK.  Now it is done else where by the most skilled and professional crew anywhere - so be rest assured our training far exceeds what most countries/companies get for CP. 

________________________________________

You guys are all pretty much on side as far as recruiting goes.  This program needs to recruit from all across the board.  There is simply not enough interest/suitable candidates in such a small org as the MP branch to fill the tasking. 

There is a pretty consistant fail/non-selection rate of 75%.  That is from initial application all the way to training complete and passed.  So at least, despite the manpower shortage, they have not slacked the standards - which is real good to see.

   

 

[garb811]

An email is out to the MP Branch stating that CPP is about to open to all trades, I imagine CANFORGEN to follow shortly.

 

[regulator12]

The canforgen is out check it out on the DIN, its open to all pers cpl to sgt.

 

[garb811]

For anyone interested who doesn't have easy access to CANFORGENs, or for those who are playing along from home, the message can be found here:  CLOSE PROTECTION (CP) RECRUITING CAMPAIGN.

 

[Big Red]

Initially CP training was done in in the UK.  Now it is done else where by the most skilled and professional crew anywhere - so be rest assured our training far exceeds what most countries/companies get for CP. 

I hope you're not referring to BW...

 

[Sideshow]

I hope you're not referring to BW...

Yes he is.

 

[westie47]

I just read the Canforgen, sounds like the selection is very similiar, albeit shorter than DHTC....looong runs, etc. I didn't make this (Sept) cut-off but plan to apply for the next course.

Anyone out there heading for selection??? PM me with details.

One thing that I wasn't clear on, the message says it's a three year gig but be prepared to deploy for 6 months. How will that affect Reserve guys? If we even get in!!!!!!

 

[Armymedic]

CANFORGEN- interesting read...Sounds like if you are not good enough to be a SAR Tech, JTF assulter, or SOR operator...you might be able to shoot good enough to be in CPP.

Good news is that it will give you marketable skills beyond the cbt arms. Just don't waste your money buying t-shirts at the training establishment.

 

[medaid]

I have a serious question though... why aren't officers being considered?

 

[westie47]

So it's true about where the training takes place????  :-XSomeplace in the US south? It's a good place, I know a few people who have trained/worked there.

Where does the selection take place? I guess I better get running.....

 

[dapaterson]

I have a serious question though... why aren't officers being considered?

Because officers are generally the planners for such things, vice the actual do-ers.  There is value in experiencing something before being told to lead & manage the activity; but the cost of training and the reality that officers would likely never employ the skills mitigates against their training in the field.

That's just my 2c; don't quote it as gospel.

 

[Greymatters]

Some courses solve this by offering two variations: a full course for specialists (who can be officers and/or NCO's depending on the country), and a shorter 'familiarization' course for senior officers who will manage the specialists. 

 

[captjtq]

Because officers are generally the planners for such things, vice the actual do-ers.  There is value in experiencing something before being told to lead & manage the activity; but the cost of training and the reality that officers would likely never employ the skills mitigates against their training in the field.

That's just my 2c; don't quote it as gospel.

I can speak from experience having had the privilege of being the DCO and A/CO of MPs in Afghanistan (including CP Operatives), and having some very good buddies (peers) who are CP-qualified Officers who led CP teams in Afghanistan (two of whom were awarded US MSMs for their leadership) that they not only employed the skills taught during their training, but did the job over there alongside their troops - they not only did the CP job, but experienced all the heartache that is leadership in a high-threat environment.

It was ultimately up to the team leader to ensure that their VIP was kept as safe as possible in a very hostile environment... we're not talking VIPs who sat in an office all tour, but officers with leafs on their epaulets who did a lot of traveling throughout Afghanistan. Any CP team leader (Sgt+) not only has to be as well trained as their Cpls, but in fact more is expected of them when the job is actually being performed - so not only are they doing that traditional 'planning/training' function, but they're leading from the front doing CP.

 

[Dissident]

Any CP team leader (Sgt+)[...]

There was a MCpl CP teamleader on TF1-07. I'm told he did a good job too and got promoted at the end of the tour, AFAIR.

Cheers.

 

[captjtq]

There was a MCpl CP teamleader on TF1-07. I'm told he did a good job too and got promoted at the end of the tour, AFAIR.

Cheers.

This is true... but as I understand it, the normal rank level for a team leader is Sgt. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will speak up (I'm definitely no SME). Obviously, when pers shortages occur, as in any trade and especially in operations, we are sometimes required to fill slots with lower ranks. All that said, you're right - all of the MCpls I've seen as team leads have acquitted themselves exceptionally.

 

[DirtyDog]

Today it was passed down to us that they are looking for apps....