• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Comment: Will Canada Stand With It's Allies?

Flip

Sr. Member
Inactive
Reaction score
0
Points
210

Comment Link


Rosie says......

Will Canada stand with its allies?

Oct 29, 2007 04:30 AM
Rosie DiManno

Nations, like people, are known by the company they keep. There are formal alliances for the purpose and informal affiliations.

Sometimes, though, a common principle – moral prerogative, security, commitment to a foreign undertaking – is the tie that binds, most especially between individual countries with a shared history and similar values. These are the key relationships within a coalition.

NATO is a western bloc, with newer additions. Afghanistan was to be NATO's 21st century reinvention and relevancy in a post-Cold War world.

It's not working out that way, with European capitals unbudging in their refusal to commit sufficient combat troops and treasure to the mission. They'll deploy soldiers but remain insistent on keeping them out of harm's way.

But what they do – or rather don't do – can't be the deciding factor for what Canada itself decides in the coming months. The chimera of military involvement in Afghanistan for a majority of European nations must not be used as an excuse for pulling our frontline troops out of Kandahar.

It has become obvious that only a handful of nations are in for the long haul, which will be very long indeed. Will Canada stand with its traditional allies and do the same? The answer to that question is about us, not anyone else.

The Americans will stay because Afghanistan, despite the U.S.-led coalition that deposed the Taliban in 2001, is primarily their war. No Democratic presidential candidate has said a word about retreating from Afghanistan; quite the opposite, even as they rail over Iraq. The British, as Prime Minister Gordon Brown vowed last week, will not abandon Helmand province, however protracted the mission – and they twice suffered defeat on Afghan soil in the 19th century. The Dutch have given notice they will hang in beyond August of 2008, the deadline originally set, doing far more conventional fighting in Uruzgan than had been anticipated.

Canada is ... thinking about it, Prime Minister Stephen Harper indicating in the throne speech he would prefer troops to remain beyond 2009, at least till 2011, possibly in an exclusive training capacity.

This, I think, is a fig leaf – political cover to render the mission more palpable to both opposition parties and the public. Afghanistan doesn't need our 2,500 troops to train their security forces. They need them to fight, as warranted, and to provide protection for reconstruction projects and aid agencies.

There were embarrassing contradictions last week between the PM and Gen. Rick Hillier even about the training timeline, the latter suggesting it would take a decade before the Afghan army is ready to take over after Harper predicted the army could defend "its own sovereignty'' by 2011.

While Hillier has since clarified his comments – he'd meant Afghan troops assuming responsibility for the whole country, not just Kandahar – he was actually right the first time. Afghan's army, unlike the Afghan police, is immensely respected by the civilian population. They are professional soldiers, relatively free of corruption, and brave. But only two brigades have graduated and are now in the field, with another coming down the pipe. That's nowhere near enough to hold the insurgency at bay and they won't be close to having reasonable troop strength in three years time.

Further, those troops are abysmally lacking in proper military vehicles and equipment. On joint missions, the ANA goes out front – in pickup trucks, with exposed machine guns propped in back.

So, forget pleading with NATO members for more boots on the ground. Won't happen. Hit them hard for money, for helicopters, for kitting out Afghan security forces.

They won't risk blood. But there's no risk in cold, hard cash. They've got it.


 
Will Canada stand with it's NATO Allies?

Will the NATO Allies stand with Canada?.....

This is a knife that slices both ways.  The pot should never start calling the kettle black.
 
Now I could be totally wrong here but...

Also, almost every CF member I have ever talked to seams to think that we are doing a lot of good over there, that things are getting done.  If Afghanistan does not have the adequate military force to fight the insurgency, then it is our responsibility to remain and aid them until they can defend themselves completely.  I mean this is coming from a 17 year old so I'm sure there are lots of factors I am unaware of.  But it just seams that it's easier to stay then to pull out and have to deal with the backlash from CF members, plus having NATO look down their noses at us.  In the end, their will be people who feel one way or the other and you can't please everyone, just try to do the right thing. If we pull out, we will be hassled for it, if we stay, same thing.  So we may as well stay and get the job done...Again, just my opinion.

Cheers, Kyle
 
MedTechStudent said:
Now I could be totally wrong here but...

Canada has a long history of joining into wars with the US, and as long as they are there I predict we will be as well. 

I would think that someone has been rather selective in your education.  Canada does not have a long history of joining into wars with the US.  We can go back to Vietnam, to see that this isn't true.  Canada has not been involved in many of the 'ventures' that the US has embarked on.  Canada had no role in Panama.  Canada had no role in any of the US 'ventures' in South America, Central America, or the Caribbean.  Both Canada and the US have taken roles intervening in Africa, completely separate from each other.  The same can be said for Southeast Asia and Central Asia, as well as the Middle East. 

Canada does not have a long history of joining into wars with the US.  Canada does have a long history of supporting its NATO and Commonwealth Partners.  Canada has a long history of supporting UN sponsored 'interventions'.  This is quite different from what you have said.


(I know........It is only semantics, but the Loonie Left may take it another way if not corrected.)
 
MedTechStudent said:
Ya your right...(glad we were smart enough to stay out Vietnam)

I supposed what I'm thinkin is back to the World Wars, where essentially when ever the US got into a scrap we were automatically involved.

There again you are wrong.  You forget, or never learned, that Canada was in both World Wars, years before the US joined into the action.  Prior to WW I, Canada was fighting in South Africa as a Colony of the British Empire.  The US was not in any way involved in the Boer War. 

You are only making general statements.........and we have just derailed this discussion.
 
Oh yes thats right, US Joined WW1 after their Lucitania was sunk in 1915 and cause the Germans wouldn't stop sub warfare (all that zimmerman stuff).  See i know that I don't know what I was talking about  ::)

Ok sorry, back on topic.....
 
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snpwwi2.htm

The Lusitania made her maiden voyage from Liverpool to New York in September 1907. Construction had begun in 1903 with the goal of building the fastest liner afloat. Her engines produced 68,000-horse power and pushed the giant through the water at an average speed over 25 knots. Dubbed the "Greyhound of the Seas" she soon captured the Blue Ribbon for the fastest Atlantic crossing.

The British Admiralty had secretly subsidized her construction and she was built to Admiralty specifications with the understanding that at the outbreak of war the ship would be consigned to government service. As war clouds gathered in 1913, the Lusitania quietly entered dry dock in Liverpool and was fitted for war service. This included the installation of ammunition magazines and gun mounts on her decks. The mounts, concealed under the teak deck, were ready for the addition of the guns when needed.

British.  Not American.  It was still two years later before the US went to war.
 
Back
Top