Common Army Phase
- Thread starter csura2
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Not sure where you are right now but if you are in Gagetown, check with your OR. I'm on PAT awaiting CAP and have seen the list for all summer courses. (I'm not on it). There are a couple of ROTP guys on PAT with me that have got their course from the OR but are still awaiting their message. We have been told there is another course starting in June with priority going to RMC, ROTP and others in the system with DEO and CEOTP that started BMOQ anytime this year (I started Jan.) starting CAP in September.
That being said, the DEO guys who were loaded on the last course were loaded on day one of the course due to spots opening up last minute so who knows what's going to happen around here.
That being said, the DEO guys who were loaded on the last course were loaded on day one of the course due to spots opening up last minute so who knows what's going to happen around here.
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FWIW, the reason the Mods are the way they are is because they were originally in order numerically, but as courses go on they improve and things get shifted around.
For example, the CF Instruct Personnel POs used to be last (Mod5) on CAP/BMOQ-L, but then it came up that it would be better for the candidates to have that training first so they could use those skills leading PT, etc for the rest of the course.
The current order is 5, 2, 1, 3, and 4. Sounds confusing but it was really only two changes: 5 was moved to being taught first, and 2 moved ahead of 1.
It would be more of a burden to change what each Mod means what just to keep the numbers in order, so they remain named the same thing and the nubmers are out of order.
At the end of the day for most candidates the Mod system doesn't make any difference because they come here for 10 weeks and they get the training the Infantry School gives them in the most logical order it can be given.
It only ever becomes an issue if someone was injured off or failed and the Mods are shifted before they return.
For example, the CF Instruct Personnel POs used to be last (Mod5) on CAP/BMOQ-L, but then it came up that it would be better for the candidates to have that training first so they could use those skills leading PT, etc for the rest of the course.
The current order is 5, 2, 1, 3, and 4. Sounds confusing but it was really only two changes: 5 was moved to being taught first, and 2 moved ahead of 1.
It would be more of a burden to change what each Mod means what just to keep the numbers in order, so they remain named the same thing and the nubmers are out of order.
At the end of the day for most candidates the Mod system doesn't make any difference because they come here for 10 weeks and they get the training the Infantry School gives them in the most logical order it can be given.
It only ever becomes an issue if someone was injured off or failed and the Mods are shifted before they return.
ballz
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Could you tell us the name of the PO of each Mod? That would be dandy as that basically is the all the curriculum.
Also, if you complete a mod, you don't have to re-do that mod if you get recoursed do you? I know that seems like a stupid question but in BMOQ it wasn't that way.
Also, the physical POs are something I'd like to know. I've heard you ruck ruck and ruck some more. To what standard?
Also, if you complete a mod, you don't have to re-do that mod if you get recoursed do you? I know that seems like a stupid question but in BMOQ it wasn't that way.
Also, the physical POs are something I'd like to know. I've heard you ruck ruck and ruck some more. To what standard?
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Without giving away PO numbers, here is what the candidate of BMOQ-L must do:ballz said:
Conduct Offensive Operations
Conduct Defensive Operations
Conduct a Recce Patrol
Conduct Live Fire Ranges
Fire the C7
Navigate with a Map and Compass in a tactical environment
Navigate with a GPS in a tactical environment
Supervise Army Physical Fitness Training
Employ Field craft
Fire the LMG
Throw Grenades
Recognize AFV and Aircraft
Mine Awareness
Communicate with current radio equipment
Fire the Pistol
Call for indirect Fire
Method of Instruction
Implementing programs
Instructing
If you successfully complete a mod, which is more than just passing the tests, then you don't have to re-do it PROVIDED you complete BMOQ-L within a given timeline. I think it's five years.
For physical fitness, the entrance requirement is the CF ExPres test. By the end of the course, you must complete the BFT. There is a lot of physical activity, and if you are not fit, it will distract you enough to make an already challenging course that much more difficult.
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In my opinion you are setting yourself up for failure with questions about "what if I get re-coursed?".
Yes it happens, but unless you break an ankle or have a big attitude you should pass and have the mind set that you are here to learn how to lead.
The CF EXPRES's purpose is to let us know who is so out of shape that they might die of a heart attack on the course; that's it.
It is a member's responsbitily to be in realtively decent shape when they show up for CAP/BMOQ-L, as it demonstrates that they can prepare for a task.
Even if you can pull off a "P" in the gym on Day 1, the field portion of the course and the marches are infinitely harder. I don't care if a person can run a 7 or 8 on the beep test of do 19 or 49 push ups...gym strength does not really match military fitness.
If you can still take orders and come up with a plan of how to lead your subordinates (and then motivate them to fight) after 100 hours with no sleep, soaking wet, freezing, and then march several kms with a ruck sack, you will pass CAP.
Yes it happens, but unless you break an ankle or have a big attitude you should pass and have the mind set that you are here to learn how to lead.
The CF EXPRES's purpose is to let us know who is so out of shape that they might die of a heart attack on the course; that's it.
It is a member's responsbitily to be in realtively decent shape when they show up for CAP/BMOQ-L, as it demonstrates that they can prepare for a task.
Even if you can pull off a "P" in the gym on Day 1, the field portion of the course and the marches are infinitely harder. I don't care if a person can run a 7 or 8 on the beep test of do 19 or 49 push ups...gym strength does not really match military fitness.
If you can still take orders and come up with a plan of how to lead your subordinates (and then motivate them to fight) after 100 hours with no sleep, soaking wet, freezing, and then march several kms with a ruck sack, you will pass CAP.
ballz
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Petamocto said:
A guy I was on BMOQ with this summer just got re-coursed from CAP. He said he makes 25% of their original group being recoursed due to injury, and they are only 5 weeks in. Given that, it's a valid question. My mindset is fine, but to think "it can't happen to me" is naive. An injury rate that high makes it seem like real injuries, not boo-boo's.
Petamocto said:
That's why I asked what physical standards we would be expected to achieve in CAP. I thought they would be higher than the Express test and the BFT, since we had to achieve that just to pass basic. I am preparing. It's beneficial to preparation to have goals set that you are trying to meet/exceed by the time the course rolls around.
When I'n not asking these kind of questions 6 months before the course starts (when it's too late to do something about any shortcomings), THEN I'm not preparing.
Technoviking, that's a great list. Thanks. LMG means light-machine gun right? As in the C9? I'm just a little disappointed I won't get to try the C6 this summer. Oh well... Grenades, pistols, C9 in one summer.... can't complain.
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My response is that you should be able to easily surpass all of the CF EXPRES minimum standards, and easily do the BFT with more weight than the minimum.
If you can't do a 9-10 on the run, 30+ push ups, 30+ sit ups, and the BFT in ~2hrs with 60 pounds, I would advise to keep working to those goals.
The biggest man-eater as far as medical RTUs go is people just not being prepared to do this much marching around in boots with weight. They get all sorts of blisters, then they start favouring a leg, then they get injured because of that, etc.
Yes some people do get bad luck injuries, and in those cases the Staff goes to bat for them at the Medical PRB and those candidates get full credit for all of the Mods they have completed.
Some strongly feel like the Mod system should be left in the Reserves because doing something for 10 weeks in a row is its own PO check, but that's for another thread.
If you can't do a 9-10 on the run, 30+ push ups, 30+ sit ups, and the BFT in ~2hrs with 60 pounds, I would advise to keep working to those goals.
The biggest man-eater as far as medical RTUs go is people just not being prepared to do this much marching around in boots with weight. They get all sorts of blisters, then they start favouring a leg, then they get injured because of that, etc.
Yes some people do get bad luck injuries, and in those cases the Staff goes to bat for them at the Medical PRB and those candidates get full credit for all of the Mods they have completed.
Some strongly feel like the Mod system should be left in the Reserves because doing something for 10 weeks in a row is its own PO check, but that's for another thread.
ballz
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Petamocto said:
Well... those people have a good point... I was happy to hear about the mod system, but I was surprised. I'll take it as a personal defeat if I need to cut the course in half.
Those numbers still don't seem high. I am not trying to be all gung-ho but I was expecting "at least 11 or 12 for the beep test, 40-50 pushups, 50 situps, and be able to ruck 20km with standard weight." I guess I'll just have to aim for that stuff for the sake of.... better preperation.
Sounds like the main-killer for most people is just that they've never done real hard physical labour before for 12-14 hours a day. Honestly I think the best prep I had for the field wasn't physical fitness but more so having worked long hours in the trades and sheet metal, roofing, carpentry, etc.
Well my mind is at ease now at least... I just wish I didn't have 6 more months of school between me and this course. Starting to feel like when I was waiting for Basic to come around all over again.
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As I wrote above, the CF EXPRES is not meant to identify who can do 19 or 50 push ups; it is to see who will likely die if they are pushed too hard. That is why they have their vitals taken before the test, etc.
That's not to say that you still shouldn't try 100%, because your staff will know if you quit before you're tired.
Sports (gym) fitness and working long hours of civilian labour are not really equivalent to the kinds of stresses you will face, though. I agree that some jobs are exposed to the elements and some jobs are stressful, but for the most part they all allow you to take a break when your body tells you that you've had enough.
What is great about the Army (and phase trg) is that you will be put in situations where there are no breaks, and you will learn that your body can go way past the point of thinking it should shut down, as long as your brain is motivated enough to keep it moving.
A person won't fail CAP because staff can do more push ups than they can; a person will fail CAP because they are on day 4 of an exercise and still ruck marching somewhere and decide that it's time to give up.
It is easy to be on a computer saying "I will never quit", but you are dry, warm, well-slept, not over-worked muscularly, and not under stress.
A follower has to keep themself motivated even when everything inside them is saying "stop".
As a leader, you will be faced with those same difficulties to keep yourself motivated, but you have to then look at a group of your peers - who are also suffering - and inspire them to carry out your mission.
It sounds hard, and it is. If it were easy anyone could be a leader in Army. But keeping the road to graduation difficult, it will mean something to you when you come out on the other side and I assure you that on grad parade when you hear those pipes and they give you the cap badge you've earned, you'll never be so proud of yourself.
That's not to say that you still shouldn't try 100%, because your staff will know if you quit before you're tired.
Sports (gym) fitness and working long hours of civilian labour are not really equivalent to the kinds of stresses you will face, though. I agree that some jobs are exposed to the elements and some jobs are stressful, but for the most part they all allow you to take a break when your body tells you that you've had enough.
What is great about the Army (and phase trg) is that you will be put in situations where there are no breaks, and you will learn that your body can go way past the point of thinking it should shut down, as long as your brain is motivated enough to keep it moving.
A person won't fail CAP because staff can do more push ups than they can; a person will fail CAP because they are on day 4 of an exercise and still ruck marching somewhere and decide that it's time to give up.
It is easy to be on a computer saying "I will never quit", but you are dry, warm, well-slept, not over-worked muscularly, and not under stress.
A follower has to keep themself motivated even when everything inside them is saying "stop".
As a leader, you will be faced with those same difficulties to keep yourself motivated, but you have to then look at a group of your peers - who are also suffering - and inspire them to carry out your mission.
It sounds hard, and it is. If it were easy anyone could be a leader in Army. But keeping the road to graduation difficult, it will mean something to you when you come out on the other side and I assure you that on grad parade when you hear those pipes and they give you the cap badge you've earned, you'll never be so proud of yourself.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
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Petamocto said:
I'm surprised I didn't ask this when you first said it, because I've been wondering for some time and asking people but never getting a very concrete answer.
What is the standard for gucci kit? Particularly in the field... Because I want to buy some good combat boots (M9s) and a jump ruck set-up, but I have no idea if I'm allowed to use it on CAP. Is there one standard or is it a "depends on your staff" answer?
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The official answer is still "Only what is issued".
However, it's not like the old days where everyone was issued Mark 3 boots. Now, with the Mk4 style and people being issued Magnum-style boots, it's not as big of a point as it used to be since not all are the same. As long as you keep it low-key and don't have anything like the running boot Oakley or Converse you should be okay.
For the ruck, if you're just talking the frame then you'll probably be okay since it was CF issue. However, you'll still have to go with the valise-on-bottom layout. Not that you'd want it on the top, I was in Para Coy for a couple years and I couldn't stand it on top...why people want to spend 5 minutes to get inside their ruck is beyond me.
However, it's not like the old days where everyone was issued Mark 3 boots. Now, with the Mk4 style and people being issued Magnum-style boots, it's not as big of a point as it used to be since not all are the same. As long as you keep it low-key and don't have anything like the running boot Oakley or Converse you should be okay.
For the ruck, if you're just talking the frame then you'll probably be okay since it was CF issue. However, you'll still have to go with the valise-on-bottom layout. Not that you'd want it on the top, I was in Para Coy for a couple years and I couldn't stand it on top...why people want to spend 5 minutes to get inside their ruck is beyond me.
After 10 years in the navy I am switching over to Intelligence Officer, and even though my prefered enviroment is navy, I was told I will have to complete a Common Army Phase during one of the summers between my schooling years. Can anyone tell me what this course is like. Is it like a watered down battle school? Has anyone done it recently. Anything useful would be helpful.
I looked on the recruiting website and it just looks like a basic understanding of small unit tactics and such at the section level. How much leadership is involved in this course?
I looked on the recruiting website and it just looks like a basic understanding of small unit tactics and such at the section level. How much leadership is involved in this course?
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You just failed PO 004. Use of Open Source Intelligence.
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Start here:
CAP Syllabus - 2008?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/71824.0
CAP Syllabus - 2008?
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/71824.0
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Petamocto said:
No such beast is stocked or issued.
If you are speaking of the Boot, Interim, GP - then I'll point out that it is exactly that: The Boot, Interim, GP.
It is an interim measure only, and is most certainly not "Boot, Cbt MkIV", and it should make it's disappearance within the next couple of years ...
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navypuke said:
Naval Intelligence Officers are no longer required to do CAP. This came straight from the CMS N2 himself. Also confirmed by a friend of mine, also a Naval Intelligence Officer. He just finished BMOQ and he is going straight to NETPO, then going to the wait list for BIOC.
What coast are you on?
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jeffb said:I was just on CAP and there was a Naval Int O on there. I left course early but he would have been there until just last week. If this is accurate, he's probably not going to be impressed!
He may have requested CAP even if its not a requirement. Especially given the huge wait before being loaded on a BIOC, why not get some extra training in? On the other hand, it wouldnt surprise me if this message has not been fully disseminated.
At any rate, he will be better off for the training anyway. We are supposed to be able to operate in all three elements after all.
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That rule must be within the last few months, because I just graduated a Naval Int O on 04 December.
He was course loaded in September, so if the rule came out after that I am sure he resents thetorture time in the field.
He was course loaded in September, so if the rule came out after that I am sure he resents the
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