- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Pretty clear indication as well as to how the Sudanese Gov't would view the Liberals and Bloc's calls to take us out of Afghanistan and put us into the Darfur....That would mean we'd be invading a country that doesn't want us there.....I wonder how that'd look to all the tree huggers.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
HollywoodHitman said:
They'll call for us to go in there up until the moment our troops have boots on the ground. At that precise second, they would start bitching and whining for us to leave because the legitimate government doesn't want us there.
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
Further to this:
Lies, damned lies, statistics...
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009949.html
Death rate declines in Darfur
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-darfur26aug26,1,4364749.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
But not I would say an over-arching crisis. I wonder if any Canadian media will cover the story.
But still we get this Canadian polling silliness:
Canadians Consider Military Mission in Darfur
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=16946
How many? For how long? With what role? Etc. What a stupid question. And what about?
Facts about Darfur
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009923.html
Mark
Ottawa
Lies, damned lies, statistics...
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009949.html
Death rate declines in Darfur
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-darfur26aug26,1,4364749.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
But not I would say an over-arching crisis. I wonder if any Canadian media will cover the story.
But still we get this Canadian polling silliness:
Canadians Consider Military Mission in Darfur
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=16946
How many? For how long? With what role? Etc. What a stupid question. And what about?
Facts about Darfur
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/009923.html
Mark
Ottawa
- Reaction score
- 146
- Points
- 710
Will any Western countries offer and will Sudan accept them?
UN still seeks specialized troops for Darfur force
Reuters, Aug. 30
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30176248.htm
Mark
Ottawa
UN still seeks specialized troops for Darfur force
Reuters, Aug. 30
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30176248.htm
Mark
Ottawa
- Reaction score
- 64
- Points
- 530
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070930/ap_on_re_af/sudan_darfur
HASKANITA, Sudan - Rebel forces stormed a small African Union base in northern Darfur and killed at least 10 peacekeepers, leaving behind charred armored vehicles and bombed out barracks in an unprecedented attack on the beleaguered mission that threatened upcoming peace talks.
More than 30 peacekeepers were still missing by late Sunday, indicating the death toll from the attack could rise significantly.
About 1,000 rebels from the Sudan Liberation Army attacked the base outside the town of Haskanita Saturday after sunset when Muslims break their daytime fast for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, AU officers told The Associated Press Sunday at the scene of the attack. The rebels eventually stormed the base early Sunday, they said.
"We battled for hours, but when we ran out of ammunition, we took refuge in this ditch," said a Nigerian peacekeeper who would only give his first name, Aboubakar, because he was not authorized to speak to the media. He showed a corner of the camp riddled with bullet marks and mortar holes where the AU troops mounted their resistance.
Some of the surviving peacekeepers appeared shellshocked and said it was difficult to describe the intensity of the onslaught.
The rebels used armored vehicles and rocket-propelled grenades, an indication that they are more heavily armed than previously believed, peacekeepers said.
The AU troops said they initially repelled the assailants. But the rebels eventually overran the camp at around 4 a.m., peacekeepers said as they recovered from the fighting.
The Sudanese army routed the rebels early Sunday and the remaining AU peacekeepers were evacuated under the protection of the army. By afternoon, some government troops could be seen plundering goods from the burned-out camp as an AU armored vehicle smoldered nearby.
Rebels looted several AU armored vehicles and jeeps and took a large amount of ammunition from the base before the Sudanese army drove them out, AU soldiers said.
"This is the heaviest loss of life and the biggest attack on the African Union mission," said AU spokesman Noureddine Mezni. "Our troops fought a defensive battle to protect the camp, but 30 vehicles eventually stormed it. ... The camp is completely destroyed."
At least 200,000 people have been killed in more than four years of conflict in Darfur, a region of western Sudan. The government is accused of unleashing Arab militias known as the janjaweed to fight ethnic African rebels. The janjaweed are accused of the worst atrocities of the conflict including rape and mass killings of innocent civilians.
Darfur rebels also have grown increasingly hostile to the AU peacekeepers, saying the force is not neutral and favors the government side. Several ambushes of AU forces in the past year have been blamed on the rebels.
But Saturday's raid was the first time since the AU mission was deployed in June 2004 that one of its bases has been overrun, though soldiers have been regularly attacked. There are about 6,000 AU peacekeepers in the region currently.
The announcement that new peace talks to solve the conflict will open on Oct. 27 in Libya has sparked a flurry of fighting between rebels and Sudanese government forces as each try to improve their position ahead of the conference.
The attack came as rebels appeared to flee the area around Haskanita because of a large government offensive there over the past two weeks, AU soldiers said.
AU officers said they had observed several Sudanese helicopter gunships and MiG-19 fighter jets taking off for the Haskanita area early Sunday from their base in southern Darfur. U.N. resolutions forbid all military flights over Darfur.
By midday Sunday, plumes of smokes from several burning villages in the same area could be seen rising into the air. Forces from the Arab-dominated government have been accused of indiscriminately targeting ethnic African Darfur villagers on suspicions they support the rebels.
About 150 peacekeepers, most from Nigeria, had been stationed at the Haskanita base, but they had been grounded since June because of the insecurity in the area.
"This is a terrible incident. We're still trying to understand what happened," said Gen. Martin Agwai, the AU force commander, as he inspected the destroyed base.
As the last AU peacekeepers evacuated the camp late Sunday, Sudanese government troops and militias could be seen patrolling the area. Other government troops were sifting through the camp's debris amid the burning tents and a smoldering AU armored vehicle. Some soldiers carried away mattresses, fans and other gear.
"It may not be the right political thing to say, but the government forces saved us," said an AU officer at Haskanita, who also asked not to be named because of military regulations.
Speaking in Ethiopia, the AU's top peace and security official, Said Djinnit, said 10 peacekeepers were killed in the attack. AU officers said the dead included a police officer from Senegal, two military observers from Botswana and Mali and seven soldiers from Nigeria. At least seven peacekeepers were wounded.
"Some fled on foot and by car and have called us," the AU officer said. "But we're very worried for some of them."
Senegal's foreign ministry confirmed the death of one of its peacekeepers and reiterated a warning that it might pull out its troops if the situation appears too insecure.
The U.N., AU, France and Britain all strongly condemned the attack Sunday.
The Sudanese army also deplored the attack, saying it offered protection to the evacuating peacekeepers. Despite a few sporadic gunshots, the army appeared in control of the area Sunday.
The Darfur situation had been expected to improve after U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon visited Sudan early in September and announced new negotiations with Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir to settle the conflict.
Al-Bashir announced a cease-fire earlier this month, but violence increased in the ensuing weeks.
The underfunded AU force has been unable to stem the fighting in Darfur and will soon be merged into a much more powerful AU-U.N. joint force.
Rebel commanders told AP a few days earlier that they had been involved in heavy battles against government-allied forces in the Haskanita area for the past two weeks.
"The government has massed five or six janjaweed units who are converging on us," said Abdelaziz Ushar, a commander in the rebel Justice and Equality Movement, which fights alongside the SLA.
JEM rebels said they had evacuated Haskanita a couple of days ago, and AU peacekeepers in the camp said they suspected a splinter faction known as SLA-Unity had conducted the raid.
JEM strongly condemned the attack.
"JEM is not certain about the exact culprits in this senseless attack," the group said. There was no comment from SLA-Unity.
HASKANITA, Sudan - Rebel forces stormed a small African Union base in northern Darfur and killed at least 10 peacekeepers, leaving behind charred armored vehicles and bombed out barracks in an unprecedented attack on the beleaguered mission that threatened upcoming peace talks.
More than 30 peacekeepers were still missing by late Sunday, indicating the death toll from the attack could rise significantly.
About 1,000 rebels from the Sudan Liberation Army attacked the base outside the town of Haskanita Saturday after sunset when Muslims break their daytime fast for the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, AU officers told The Associated Press Sunday at the scene of the attack. The rebels eventually stormed the base early Sunday, they said.
"We battled for hours, but when we ran out of ammunition, we took refuge in this ditch," said a Nigerian peacekeeper who would only give his first name, Aboubakar, because he was not authorized to speak to the media. He showed a corner of the camp riddled with bullet marks and mortar holes where the AU troops mounted their resistance.
Some of the surviving peacekeepers appeared shellshocked and said it was difficult to describe the intensity of the onslaught.
The rebels used armored vehicles and rocket-propelled grenades, an indication that they are more heavily armed than previously believed, peacekeepers said.
The AU troops said they initially repelled the assailants. But the rebels eventually overran the camp at around 4 a.m., peacekeepers said as they recovered from the fighting.
The Sudanese army routed the rebels early Sunday and the remaining AU peacekeepers were evacuated under the protection of the army. By afternoon, some government troops could be seen plundering goods from the burned-out camp as an AU armored vehicle smoldered nearby.
Rebels looted several AU armored vehicles and jeeps and took a large amount of ammunition from the base before the Sudanese army drove them out, AU soldiers said.
"This is the heaviest loss of life and the biggest attack on the African Union mission," said AU spokesman Noureddine Mezni. "Our troops fought a defensive battle to protect the camp, but 30 vehicles eventually stormed it. ... The camp is completely destroyed."
At least 200,000 people have been killed in more than four years of conflict in Darfur, a region of western Sudan. The government is accused of unleashing Arab militias known as the janjaweed to fight ethnic African rebels. The janjaweed are accused of the worst atrocities of the conflict including rape and mass killings of innocent civilians.
Darfur rebels also have grown increasingly hostile to the AU peacekeepers, saying the force is not neutral and favors the government side. Several ambushes of AU forces in the past year have been blamed on the rebels.
But Saturday's raid was the first time since the AU mission was deployed in June 2004 that one of its bases has been overrun, though soldiers have been regularly attacked. There are about 6,000 AU peacekeepers in the region currently.
The announcement that new peace talks to solve the conflict will open on Oct. 27 in Libya has sparked a flurry of fighting between rebels and Sudanese government forces as each try to improve their position ahead of the conference.
The attack came as rebels appeared to flee the area around Haskanita because of a large government offensive there over the past two weeks, AU soldiers said.
AU officers said they had observed several Sudanese helicopter gunships and MiG-19 fighter jets taking off for the Haskanita area early Sunday from their base in southern Darfur. U.N. resolutions forbid all military flights over Darfur.
By midday Sunday, plumes of smokes from several burning villages in the same area could be seen rising into the air. Forces from the Arab-dominated government have been accused of indiscriminately targeting ethnic African Darfur villagers on suspicions they support the rebels.
About 150 peacekeepers, most from Nigeria, had been stationed at the Haskanita base, but they had been grounded since June because of the insecurity in the area.
"This is a terrible incident. We're still trying to understand what happened," said Gen. Martin Agwai, the AU force commander, as he inspected the destroyed base.
As the last AU peacekeepers evacuated the camp late Sunday, Sudanese government troops and militias could be seen patrolling the area. Other government troops were sifting through the camp's debris amid the burning tents and a smoldering AU armored vehicle. Some soldiers carried away mattresses, fans and other gear.
"It may not be the right political thing to say, but the government forces saved us," said an AU officer at Haskanita, who also asked not to be named because of military regulations.
Speaking in Ethiopia, the AU's top peace and security official, Said Djinnit, said 10 peacekeepers were killed in the attack. AU officers said the dead included a police officer from Senegal, two military observers from Botswana and Mali and seven soldiers from Nigeria. At least seven peacekeepers were wounded.
"Some fled on foot and by car and have called us," the AU officer said. "But we're very worried for some of them."
Senegal's foreign ministry confirmed the death of one of its peacekeepers and reiterated a warning that it might pull out its troops if the situation appears too insecure.
The U.N., AU, France and Britain all strongly condemned the attack Sunday.
The Sudanese army also deplored the attack, saying it offered protection to the evacuating peacekeepers. Despite a few sporadic gunshots, the army appeared in control of the area Sunday.
The Darfur situation had been expected to improve after U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon visited Sudan early in September and announced new negotiations with Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir to settle the conflict.
Al-Bashir announced a cease-fire earlier this month, but violence increased in the ensuing weeks.
The underfunded AU force has been unable to stem the fighting in Darfur and will soon be merged into a much more powerful AU-U.N. joint force.
Rebel commanders told AP a few days earlier that they had been involved in heavy battles against government-allied forces in the Haskanita area for the past two weeks.
"The government has massed five or six janjaweed units who are converging on us," said Abdelaziz Ushar, a commander in the rebel Justice and Equality Movement, which fights alongside the SLA.
JEM rebels said they had evacuated Haskanita a couple of days ago, and AU peacekeepers in the camp said they suspected a splinter faction known as SLA-Unity had conducted the raid.
JEM strongly condemned the attack.
"JEM is not certain about the exact culprits in this senseless attack," the group said. There was no comment from SLA-Unity.
- Reaction score
- 64
- Points
- 530
Rebels or pro-government forces posing as rebels ? The government doesnt want peacekeepers in the region. I'll take off my tin foil hat now. I agree with CSA that Darfur while a human tragedy a peacekeeping mission would be long term and thankless. Why not invade Burma/Myanmar ? Unfortunately for western forces to be committed the bottom line has to be national interest. For the west there isnt the national interest in Darfur or Myanmar.
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
I wonder just how much coverage this anti-blue incident will garner in the Canadian Press.
Will it serve as the wake-up call for all those radical left-leaning lunatics that being in the good 'ol UN blue hat does not ensure 'peace' and 'protection'?
Another incident which shatters the image of peacekeepers dutifully standing between the disgruntled handing out white lillies and releasing doves.
There are plenty of precedents they've chosen to ignore -- including against Canadians; if only they would learn. I doubt this will do much to rid them of their stereotypical view. Sadly.
My thoughts and prayers to the fallen peacekeepers. May their families have comfort in their servcie to humanity and in their aiding of the oppressed.
Will it serve as the wake-up call for all those radical left-leaning lunatics that being in the good 'ol UN blue hat does not ensure 'peace' and 'protection'?
Another incident which shatters the image of peacekeepers dutifully standing between the disgruntled handing out white lillies and releasing doves.
There are plenty of precedents they've chosen to ignore -- including against Canadians; if only they would learn. I doubt this will do much to rid them of their stereotypical view. Sadly.
My thoughts and prayers to the fallen peacekeepers. May their families have comfort in their servcie to humanity and in their aiding of the oppressed.
TangoTwoBravo
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3,279
- Points
- 1,110
A sad and confusing situation to say the least. I will admit that I don't know Sudan intimately, but seeing the rebels attack the AU in that manner seems a little odd. Better do some reading.
It goes to show that you need to go in ready for pretty much anything (including an attack by armoured vehicles). Looks like those AU guys were outgunned and outnumbered.
It goes to show that you need to go in ready for pretty much anything (including an attack by armoured vehicles). Looks like those AU guys were outgunned and outnumbered.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Army Vern - you got that right. There is absolutely no upside to committing our troops to the Sudan. The word that comes to my mind is 'Somalia' X 10. In Astan we have some control over conditions. Perhaps the touchy feely NGOs should spearhead a peace movement and see how far it gets. 'peace good, peacekeeping/making/enforcing troops bad'. I bet that even if CF Forces weren't there and the NGOs took casualties it would still be DNDs fault......
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 5,786
- Points
- 1,110
It will be interesting to see what kind of spin (if any) is put on this by not only the media, but by the pro-interventionists in the Opposition. Like something along the lines of "it wouldn't have happened if we were there because our vehicles outclass their's" or "it was because of inter-African tension and we're much more neutral". A small side bar from that - aren't the AU using a pile of Grizzlies we gave them a couple of years ago?
I don't see things getting much better out there with what is planned - I tend to agree that it could turn into another Somalia if the mission isn't well thought out, prepared both in personnel and materiel and prepared to use whatever means are necessary to carry out the mission, not matter who gets smacked.
My couple of copper bits.
MM
I don't see things getting much better out there with what is planned - I tend to agree that it could turn into another Somalia if the mission isn't well thought out, prepared both in personnel and materiel and prepared to use whatever means are necessary to carry out the mission, not matter who gets smacked.
My couple of copper bits.
MM
- Reaction score
- 114
- Points
- 680
Yep, Canadian Grizzlies & Canadians training them on their use.
Op Augural
and as observers:
Op Safari
Edited to include hyperlink
Op Augural
and as observers:
Op Safari
Edited to include hyperlink
This doesn't come as a complete shock to me at all...while we were in country, we were "unofficially" under the protection of whatever nearby AU forces were in the area. We had fairly good communication with local members & commanders, and for the most part felt fairly safe when they were around.
However, one thing to mention is how woefully under-equipped the AU forces are. They ran out of ammunition, and I'll betcha dollars to donuts that a good portion of the AU armoured vehicles weren't operable. Even with the donation of the armoured vehicles from Canada a year or so ago, the amount of dust & sand tends to clog things up pretty quickly -- and the clusters of AU soldiers don't exactly have access to regular, quality maintenance.
As for the government forces coming to the rescue...it no doubtedly was done with some hesitation. The government forces do not want any AU/UN forces present in the country - however, not providing any aid and leaving the AU forces out on a limb isn't good for international relations. And international relations is exactly what the government of Sudan needs right now. When China starts to hesitate to sell people weapons, you know you've for a PR problem on your hands...
However, one thing to mention is how woefully under-equipped the AU forces are. They ran out of ammunition, and I'll betcha dollars to donuts that a good portion of the AU armoured vehicles weren't operable. Even with the donation of the armoured vehicles from Canada a year or so ago, the amount of dust & sand tends to clog things up pretty quickly -- and the clusters of AU soldiers don't exactly have access to regular, quality maintenance.
As for the government forces coming to the rescue...it no doubtedly was done with some hesitation. The government forces do not want any AU/UN forces present in the country - however, not providing any aid and leaving the AU forces out on a limb isn't good for international relations. And international relations is exactly what the government of Sudan needs right now. When China starts to hesitate to sell people weapons, you know you've for a PR problem on your hands...
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 5,786
- Points
- 1,110
On the bright side, looks like it's back in its original camouflage scheme...
MM
MM
midget-boyd91
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 230
A question that comes to my mind is what happens after a sizeable UN force is deployed into Darfur, most likely hopefully on a Chapter 7 mission. Is there going to be a repeat of Somalia where the world is crying for intervention only to change their minds and cry to leave once casualties start coming in? Is it going to be another stand-and-watch-but-don't-help mission? This latest attack just shows all those who doubt that UN will face violence in Darfur that they are wrong and the UN will in fact be caught in the fighting. Are people going to ccry to leave Darfur if 71 Canadian soldiers are killed there?
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 5,786
- Points
- 1,110
My guess is yes - they'll start flying off the handle at how this turned into a "combat" mission as opposed to a peace keeping mission. Either that, or the government in power won't let our people go in unless it's a very blue mission with our pers in some rear with the gear capacity if it looks remotely scary.
MM
MM
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