Constraining Canadian Federal Budget during Post COVID Downturn

[Navy_Pete]

I've seen about half dozen articles stating low recruitment. So I would go with not enough coming in the door as the first part of many problems.

You can live with low recruitment if you have high retention, and enough training capacity (formal, OJT, mentoring whatever) to keep people filling in jobs as folks retire/move on, while keeping the amount of work steady.

We've had a sustained low recruitment numbers, while having sustained high attrition, and a sustained period not enough training capacity for the small number of recruits anyway, while also increasing the amount of work (old equipment + higher ops tempo). It's not really one problem, it's a bunch of compounding issues hitting together.

And for the RCN, add in things like the Martech disaster and then the cuts to CFHD and spec pay being just slightly higher then base pay all that adds to the current death spiral. If I'm a QL5 tech doing a MS/PO2 job at S1 Spec 1 or 2 pay working crazy hours to resurrect a ship, and your reward is jetty hopping to a different ship to do the same, even the most optimistic and easy going person in their 20s will have enough of that pretty quick.

Having said that, worked with some really great people that came in, hit OFP, and decided they wanted to do something else after their initial contract was up. Fully supported that, but I think the release process was sort of the opposite approach, and as far as I know none of them ever changed their minds and got back in. If they left with a bad taste after doing what they had commited to do and had an honourable discharge, I doubt they would be recommending it to other people either as an option, so is like an anti-recruitment process in a way.

 

[Quirky]

I've seen about half dozen articles stating low recruitment. So I would go with not enough coming in the door as the first part of many problems.

When they do stumble through the door, the wait time is still painfully way too long and people just give up and move on.

 

[Haggis]

When they do stumble through the door, the wait time is still painfully way too long and people just give up and move on.

I currently work in my agency's recruit school. Most recruits tell me they have been in the recruitment process for 2 - 5 years. Points for perseverance, indeed. Once they graduate from the 18 weeks of training they face up to two years of probation. The CAF is nowhere near that yet in terms of processing time for most trades.

Despite the length of our process, we still make our production targets, We lose a few in every intake. but the problem we see is not a lack of recruits, but the quality of applicants.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The CBC's Mandarin - in - Chief getting grilled about bonuses....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1732125698351861833

 

[Quirky]

I currently work in my agency's recruit school. Most recruits tell me they have been in the recruitment process for 2 - 5 years. Points for perseverance, indeed. Once they graduate from the 18 weeks of training they face up to two years of probation. The CAF is nowhere near that yet in terms of processing time for most trades.

Despite the length of our process, we still make our production targets, We lose a few in every intake. but the problem we see is not a lack of recruits, but the quality of applicants.

This agency, is it government?

 

[mariomike]

and find a way to get school guidance departments on side.

Tell their students the CAF makes a vital contribution to Canada.

Maybe that is important to some. Maybe it's not. That's for them to decide.

But, I would tell them it's a job with a future. Opportunities. Far from routine. And security.

And if they decide to join after high school, and hang in for the whole ride, there's a 70% pension around age 53.

 

[lenaitch]

Why are they tied up at ER's waiting hours to hand off patients? That is the big bottleneck and needs to be worked on.

There was a recent initiative at one Ontario hospital (I can't find the article now) that somehow funded a position/positions in the ED to fill that role without involving attending medical staff. Obviously they simply can't drop them and run. I believe there are now more options for EMS staff to transport to other than a hospital and expanded treat-and-release options. Many also have 'community paramedics' that attend to shut-in seniors and others to try and pre-empt the need for an ambulance call.

Back in the day, all of the emergency services hired off the street and did in-house training. Given the degree of diagnosis and intervention at the paramedic level now, I also am willing to accept the need for formal post-secondary education. Without some kind of publicly funded centralized 'EMS academy', few departments could afford to provide the required level of training.

 

[YZT580]

Tell their students the CAF makes a vital contribution to Canada.

Maybe that is important to some. Maybe it's not. That's for them to decide.

But, I would tell them it's a job with a future. Opportunities. Far from routine. And security.

And if they decide to join after high school, and hang in for the whole ride, there's a 70% pension around age 53.

and its indexed. But first you have to change the mindset of the guidance person

 

[Good2Golf]

But first you have to change the mindset of the guidance person

…and respective school boards, etc. More anecdotal evidence than not of attitudes supporting keeping CAF recruiters from school-related career development activities, etc.

 

[mariomike]

When I was in school, back when the Earth was cooling, they had Sentinal magazine prominently displayed in the Guidance office.

 

[Kirkhill]

When i was in school, back when the Earth was cooling, they had Sentinal magazine prominently displayed in the Guidance office.

School library reading table.

 

[Haggis]

This agency, is it government?

Yes. Federal.

 

[lenaitch]

…and respective school boards, etc. More anecdotal evidence than not of attitudes supporting keeping CAF recruiters from school-related career development activities, etc.

Agree. It goes much deeper than guidance departments or individual staffers.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Agree. It goes much deeper than guidance departments or individual staffers.

how about entire Teacher’s Federations/Unions?

The BCTF has resource packages for classroom teachers to prevent students from being recruited by the military…

 

[Halifax Tar]

how about entire Teacher’s Federations/Unions?

The BCTF has resource packages for classroom teachers to prevent students from being recruited by the military…

I know of schools who have altered Remembrance Day activities to be about peace and anti-colonialism and completely deleted the remembrance of sacrifice from their activities.

 

[mariomike]

Without some kind of publicly funded centralized 'EMS academy', few departments could afford to provide the required level of training.

From 1966 to 1975 every member of every service in Ontario - with the exception of Metro - did their mandatory basic training at CFB Borden.

That is where they were housed and fed.

The instructors were provincial employees. Not CAF.

Why are they tied up at ER's waiting hours to hand off patients? That is the big bottleneck and needs to be worked on.

Good question.

The government does have data on the hours paramedics spend waiting in emergency rooms to transfer patients to the care of a hospital, which are often a key factor in ambulance availability, but won't disclose it.

Ontario regions face ambulance pressures; province won't release offload delay data

Several Ontario municipalities say their paramedic services are under immense pressure, with worrying stretches of times during which no ambulances are available to respond to calls -- but the province doesn't track the problem.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

 

[lenaitch]

From 1966 to 1975 every member of every service in Ontario - with the exception of Metro - did their mandatory basic training at CFB Borden.

Yes, but I suspect that 'basic training' back then was pretty, well . . . basic. The hospital-run ambulance service in in one of my smaller northern postings were hospital orderlies who dropped what they were doing and grabbed a coat. Pretty much just scoop-and-run.

With the level of training now, I can't see the province taking it on.

 

[mariomike]

Yes, but I suspect that 'basic training' back then was pretty, well . . . basic. The hospital-run ambulance service in in one of my smaller northern postings were hospital orderlies who dropped what they were doing and grabbed a coat. Pretty much just scoop-and-run.

With the level of training now, I can't see the province taking it on.

We were never hospital orderlies.

 

[lenaitch]

We were never hospital orderlies.

No, but many rural and northern services were. One step up from when the local undertaker used to do it (which I always thought to be a bit of a conflict of interest).

 

[mariomike]

No, but many rural and northern services were. One step up from when the local undertaker used to do it (which I always thought to be a bit of a conflict of interest).

I'll take your word for it. We only had to worry about 243 aquare miles of Ontario.

Far North was Steeles Ave.. smile emoji