Continental Defence Corvette

[dapaterson]

Including the scurvy lot staking out the Co-Op?

 

[OldSolduer]

Including the scurvy lot staking out the Co-Op?

PARTICULARLY THEM!!!

 

[Prairie canuck]

It seems someone is trying to take all the shortcomings of the unarmed AOPS, do some ice, coastal, and overseas work, add the requirements of replacing the MCDVs capabilities, throw in some speed, some long range and endurance, but try to run it all within a 100m vessel with a staff of under 50 pers. Seems highly unlikely to stuff it into one hull. Seems like 2 or 3 different vessels but then again what do I know?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Welcome to Canada. Land of the all-singing, all-dancing ship and where perfect is the enemy of good-enough.

 

[Halifax Tar]

But maybe our subs could….View attachment 96906

I'd prefer:

Battlecarrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Furniture]

It seems someone is trying to take all the shortcomings of the unarmed AOPS, do some ice, coastal, and overseas work, add the requirements of replacing the MCDVs capabilities, throw in some speed, some long range and endurance, but try to run it all within a 100m vessel with a staff of under 50 pers. Seems highly unlikely to stuff it into one hull. Seems like 2 or 3 different vessels but then again what do I know?

How do you come to that conclusion?

Ice strengthened hull is not nearly the same as an ice breaker. The MCDV roles are being spread across the AOPVs and the plan to contract civilian OSVs.

Endurance, speed, and range aren't particularly crew intensive, unless you run the ships like a ship built in the 1990s, like our CPFs...

In conclusion, the RCN already plans to use two other ship types to pick up some of the roles of the MCDVs, and the CDC will pick up a new role that the MCDVs never had.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I'm tracking a range requirement of only 4000nm.

Topshee stated in his interview with Noah (38 min mark roughly) that they are looking at the CDC having the ability to travel from St. John's, Newfoundland to Prince Rupert, BC (5,300 nmi~) and he wants another 20% margins, which brings it up to roughly 7,000 nmi range without refueling.

So with the CPS, and the RCN projects on the go, do we have the personnel to actually run a CDC project? Is the CDC even funded? The CRCN is posted this summer, no official word of where he's going unless its the VCDS. Dependent on who comes in, will these lofty ideas still move forward?

Topshee stated in the above mentioned interview that they are currently in the Options Analysis stage with the CDC program, the Canadian Maritime Security Network report recently also lists Commander Dean Lang as Section Head for Platforms and Operational Enablers for the Director of Naval Requirements. He is apparently the head of the Continental Defence Corvette Project as well.

Ice strengthened hull is not nearly the same as an ice breaker. The MCDV roles are being spread across the AOPVs and the plan to contract civilian OSVs.

CDC is still going to be expected to do some MCDV roles however, modern mine warfare can be done by any vessel with an adequate enough crane, deck/storage space and the requisite crew/sensor links. It's a great idea to contract civilian OSV's however, trying to rely on contracting or seizing vessels you don't own when required in fundamentally risky.

It seems someone is trying to take all the shortcomings of the unarmed AOPS, do some ice, coastal, and overseas work, add the requirements of replacing the MCDVs capabilities, throw in some speed, some long range and endurance, but try to run it all within a 100m vessel with a staff of under 50 pers. Seems highly unlikely to stuff it into one hull. Seems like 2 or 3 different vessels but then again what do I know?

Topshee seems pretty open to the fact this likely won't fit at 100m or less and has addressed that they might need to go bigger, but there is inherent tradeoffs to existing infrastructure to fit the vessels into if so. Something as being described (Halifax class sensor suite/weaponry) with a good range, limited ice capability and mid-20 knot speed requirement isn't exactly impossible. Difficult? Sure, but he also seemingly wants the design as be as Canadian as possible with as much Canadian or non-American equipment involved as possible while still being River class interoperable to hedge our bets against the US.

 

[Stoker]

Topshee stated in his interview with Noah (38 min mark roughly) that they are looking at the CDC having the ability to travel from St. John's, Newfoundland to Prince Rupert, BC (5,300 nmi~) and he wants another 20% margins, which brings it up to roughly 7,000 nmi range without refueling.

With the right plant doable at low speeds. Even AOPS could leave Halifax and circumnavigate the passage without refueling. The Kingston Class could do a transatlantic crossing without refueling.

Topshee stated in the above mentioned interview that they are currently in the Options Analysis stage with the CDC program, the Canadian Maritime Security Network report recently also lists Commander Dean Lang as Section Head for Platforms and Operational Enablers for the Director of Naval Requirements. He is apparently the head of the Continental Defence Corvette Project as well.

They've been working on the Kingston Class replacement with has changed names twice for a few year's now. In fact one of my former CO's works on the Project. My point is that is nowhere near a fully staffed project and I doubt if they will have the personnel available for some time. Its still not funded and its morphed into something it was never supposed to be, its going to be expensive. CRCN apparently won't be going as VCDS, at least not yet.

CDC is still going to be expected to do some MCDV roles however, modern mine warfare can be done by any vessel with an adequate enough crane, deck/storage space and the requisite crew/sensor links. It's a great idea to contract civilian OSV's however, trying to rely on contracting or seizing vessels you don't own when required in fundamentally risky

The type of MCM systems we employ, you can do it off any type of platform. Do we really want to going off a expensive top tier platform. I maintain we still need a MCM platform that's cheap to build and operate.

 

[NavyShooter]

The good news is that ANY ship can be a minesweeper.



Once.

 

[Prairie canuck]

How do you come to that conclusion?

Ice strengthened hull is not nearly the same as an ice breaker. The MCDV roles are being spread across the AOPVs and the plan to contract civilian OSVs.

Endurance, speed, and range aren't particularly crew intensive, unless you run the ships like a ship built in the 1990s, like our CPFs...

In conclusion, the RCN already plans to use two other ship types to pick up some of the roles of the MCDVs, and the CDC will pick up a new role that the MCDVs never had.

I have heard plans to contract OSVs in this forum but not from the navy. Same for the 2 other ship types, on this forum but not from the navy.

 

[Furniture]

I have heard plans to contract OSVs in this forum but not from the navy. Same for the 2 other ship types, on this forum but not from the navy.

I heard it directly from the CRCN's mouth as a member of naval staff, so it's not just hearsay.

 

[NavyShooter]

Here's a deep thought to ponder....

What if this discussion about the CDC is just a preparation for us not getting 15 CSC's, and we're going to roll into producing CDC's instead after just 3 River Class?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Here's a deep thought to ponder....

What if this discussion about the CDC is just a preparation for us not getting 15 CSC's, and we're going to roll into producing CDC's instead after just 3 River Class?

I've been wondering that for a while now.....that would be a gut punch.

EDIT: Having only 3 Rivers would be useless. Let me guess, we station 1 on the WC and 2 on the EC, pathetic. IF they cut the Rivers down, and I pray they do not, but 6 should be the minimum, 3 of them on each coast so that we have 1 available at all times on each coast. But I don't want to see less than 15 again.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Here's a deep thought to ponder....

What if this discussion about the CDC is just a preparation for us not getting 15 CSC's, and we're going to roll into producing CDC's instead after just 3 River Class?

My money is on 9+12. At end state the tradeoff is to downgrade 6 surface combatants in exchange for adding 6 more at the same or reduced gross crewing requirement, with a significant increase in arctic capability.

Plus more ships coming online faster through the mid/late 30's.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Here's a deep thought to ponder....

What if this discussion about the CDC is just a preparation for us not getting 15 CSC's, and we're going to roll into producing CDC's instead after just 3 River Class?

One point on this. In the recent interview with Topshee that Noah had, when the Rivers were talked about, Topshee viewed them in 2 tranches. He said that the first 9 would be virtually all the same and then the 2 tranche of 6 would incorporate changes/improvements that were deemed necessary over the build of the first 9.
So many we get 9 Rivers and then 12 CDC's? Who knows what will happen in the end.

 

[Lumber]

One point on this. In the recent interview with Topshee that Noah had, when the Rivers were talked about, Topshee viewed them in 2 tranches. He said that the first 9 would be virtually all the same and then the 2 tranche of 6 would incorporate changes/improvements that were deemed necessary over the build of the first 9.
So many we get 9 Rivers and then 12 CDC's? Who knows what will happen in the end.

Their currently is no contract signed for anything past the first "batch" of 3, so there is potential already for the 2nd batch of 4 thru ## to be a significant divergence from the first 3.