Continental Defence Corvette

[SeaKingTacco]

I was going to say that but didn’t want to make anybody angry.

The institutional problems will not be fixed by swapping the airframe. I’m not convinced the institution even has the capacity to swap the airframe.

But, we’ve been around and around this buoy on this forum, so carry on…

Edited to add: actually, I think SKT was referring to the AOPS problems, whereas I’m referring to the Cyclone ones… carry in nonetheless…

Fair point.

How about “a little of column A, a little of Column B…”

 

[Cloud Cover]

Out of curiosity is the AOPS any good even as an offshore refuelling pad or was adding enough JP 5 capacity too much to think about as well?

 

[DBNSG]

Ok, I’m confused. It’s got nothing to do with Quebec. The Cobra refers only to the AH-1 derivatives, now named Viper. Given we have no “Marines” to support, we would want the UH-1 derogates, ie the Twin Huey now names Venom.

Baz, read my comment again. I was always referring to the Yankee version of the UH-1Y . It looks like a gray Griffin therefore Quebecers might glance at it and think it was built in Quebec. My last point was that the ZULU version of the AH-1Z would add some bite to a De Wolfe. Which it would as say an armed Recce Helicopter but to your point a UH-1Y would be a better choice

 

[Maxman1]

Ok, I’m confused. It’s got nothing to do with Quebec. The Cobra refers only to the AH-1 derivatives, now named Viper. Given we have no “Marines” to support, we would want the UH-1 derogates, ie the Twin Huey now names Venom.

Even aside from maritime operations, we do need an attack helicopter capability.

 

[Kirkhill]

How not to build ships.

https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/5634852-to-build-ships-faster-the-navy-needs-to-change-how-it-designs-them/

 

[Halifax Tar]

The UH-1Y (Venom) is not a Cobra or derived from a Cobra, it is the latest Twin Huey.

Does it come with a 2 song play list:

1) Ride of the Valkyries
2) Fortunate Son

 

[Maxman1]

Does it come with a 2 song play list:

1) Ride of the Valkyries
2) Fortunate Son

3) Paint It Black

 

[Halifax Tar]

3) Paint It Black

How could I forget the theme song to Tour of Duty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for improving my slack and idle body.

I actually bought the box set to that show at an Afghan market in 2010 lol

 

[Baz]

Even aside from maritime operations, we do need an attack helicopter capability.

Should we have Attack Helicopters... probably.

Does it have anything to do with embarked aviation... nope. AH is the wrong tool for the job, even armed recce. The days of flying around the ocean looking for ships visually are long gone. Maritime armed recce should be done with a light MH, such as a Lynx, or perferably a Wildcat.

I couldn't find a picture, but VU-32 used to operate CH-135 Twin Hueys from ashore for fleet general support. If we could afford a split fleet (and granted, we may have to if DND wants to embark on the AOPS) then maybe bring that back with a Canadian built UH-1Y. Although I'd perfer a Wildcat, it's a pretty big ask.

If we were to switch to the SH-60, I think a split fleet of Romeos and Sierras with increased numbers makes a lot of sense.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think the CDC without manned embarked aviation is short sighted. This alone, in my mind, should be enough to split fleet and have a smaller helicopter.

I will admit my bias, as I spend my time researching how and why the decisions that led to the Sea King on the St Laurants were made.However, we did operate a 10 ton Sea King from a 2,250 ton DDH for a long time, quite effectively it turns out.

 

[markppcli]

Baz, read my comment again. I was always referring to the Yankee version of the UH-1Y . It looks like a gray Griffin therefore Quebecers might glance at it and think it was built in Quebec. My last point was that the ZULU version of the AH-1Z would add some bite to a De Wolfe. Which it would as say an armed Recce Helicopter but to your point a UH-1Y would be a better choice

Yeah but you said the Y version of the AH-1. Which isn't correct and is why people were scratching their heads.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think the CDC without manned embarked aviation is short sighted. This alone, in my mind, should be enough to split fleet and have a smaller helicopter.

I think including a helicopter on the CDC is something that needs to be carefully considered, as the current state of RCAF naval aviation is very lacking. I don't think it makes sense at all to build CDC out to fit a Cyclone sized helicopter, given how much space and weight would be taken up by the required flight deck and hanger footprint on such a small vessel design. I also question including a hanger to fit a "smaller helicopter" without a proper plan going forward to procure said aircraft, as aviation facilities to fit them aboard come with a non-insignificant cost for such a vessel.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think including a helicopter on the CDC is something that needs to be carefully considered, as the current state of RCAF naval aviation is very lacking. I don't think it makes sense at all to build CDC out to fit a Cyclone sized helicopter, given how much space and weight would be taken up by the required flight deck and hanger footprint on such a small vessel design. I also question including a hanger to fit a "smaller helicopter" without a proper plan going forward to procure said aircraft, as aviation facilities to fit them aboard come with a non-insignificant cost for such a vessel.

I think something unmanned should be the preferred route.

 

[dapaterson]

Unmanned will require more space on board, not less, as operators will now be working from the ship, not from the air.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Unmanned will require more space on board, not less, as operators will now be working from the ship, not from the air.

Currently, on a CPF the aviation set up takes the portside of one water tight section on two deck (Frame 43 - 47.5), the hanger, Fuel tanks (JP5), and usually 1 whole mess deck and at least Cabin 6/8.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Unmanned will require more space on board, not less, as operators will now be working from the ship, not from the air.

I am unconvinced that really takes up that much Ops Room real estate.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Unmanned will require more space on board, not less, as operators will now be working from the ship, not from the air.

Question, why do the operators need to be on the ship? Why can't they be based somewhere else entirely? Those maintaining the unmanned systems will need to be located onboard, but why those doing the flying?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Question, why do the operators need to be on the ship? Why can't they be based somewhere else entirely? Those maintaining the unmanned systems will need to be located onboard, but why those doing the flying?

I don’t know where to even start with that post. You are assuming a Hollywood level of comms suite that does not exist in the real world (at least in Canada). Also just the practicalities of mission planning, manoeuvring the ship and both launching/recovering with a team that is not physically onboard defy imagination.

So- no.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I don’t know where to even start with that post. You are assuming a Hollywood level of comms suite that does not exist in the real world (at least in Canada). Also just the practicalities of mission planning, manoeuvring the ship and both launching/recovering with a team that is not physically onboard defy imagination.

So- no.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don’t know where to even start with that post. You are assuming a Hollywood level of comms suite that does not exist in the real world (at least in Canada). Also just the practicalities of mission planning, manoeuvring the ship and both launching/recovering with a team that is not physically onboard defy imagination.

So- no.

I guess where I was attempting to go with this is:

When Obama was dropping Hellfire's all over Afghanistan/Pakistan, were the operators of those unmanned assets based in Afghanistan or back in the US?

If they were based in the US and the unmanned assets were based in Afghanistan, then why can't something similar occur on a ship? We are talking about 7-10yrs out from here at a min.

 

[GK .Dundas]

That's so CAF I don't know whether to laugh or cry .