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Cormorant problems

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Nicely staged pictures with one of our 41's. In normally practice the boat should maintain about 6 kts into the wind to make it easier for the pilot, at least with the labs that was the norm.
 
Even in most stiff winds, 6 kts isn't going to come close to helping...might as well be stopped.  Either go fast enough to let the aircraft stay above translational lift, or hold position in the water to provide a static target.

Regards
G2G
 
Good2Golf said:
Even in most stiff winds, 6 kts isn't going to come close to helping...might as well be stopped.  Either go fast enough to let the aircraft stay above translational lift, or hold position in the water to provide a static target.

Regards
G2G

That was the standard set for the labs, according to the information we had . But normally the pilot and Coxswain would talk by radio and adjust for conditions. For the hovercraft we had to shut down, seems the SAR techs didn't like the idea of lowering down into a running plenum and prop.... ;D
 
Single rotors don't have the inherent stability of a tandem, so that's why you'll see CH149s and CH146s more stable when the boat had good speed ahead.

Cheers
G2G
 
No its not.

First, the boat is in front of the water spray caused by the rotor downdraft.

Second, the tip of the boat's mast can be seen in white against the yellow (and therefore in front of) of the lower fuselage.

Just saying ;) .
 
Oh Canada: The Fate of the Marines’ VH-71 Fleet

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2012/04/19/oh-canada-the-fate-of-the-marines-vh-71-fleet/#ixzz1sXRlDTTW
Defense.org

Yes, the picture above shows five of the nine AgustaWestland-made VH-71 helicopters shrinkwrapped and being shipped on a barge from Maryland to Canada. The VH-71s were delivered to the U.S. Navy years ago as part of the Marine One helicopter replacement program. If you’ll remember, that effort was scrapped shortly after President Obama took office due to massive cost growth associated with converting the helos into a 21st Century presidential ride.

The problem is, nine helos had already been delivered to the Naval Air Systems Command at NAS Patuxent River in Maryland. Four test aircraft and five production birds that were going to be sent to a Lockheed Martin facility in Owego, NY., where they would be converted into luxury helos for the president.

After the program was canceled, the brand new choppers sat on the ramp at Pax River until last year when they were sold to Canada for pennies on the dollar despite interest in the choppers from “other” U.S. government agencies.  Now, they’re going to be used for parts to support Canada’s fleet of Cormorant rescue choppers. So sad.

A friend of DT’s snapped the photo above on the show floor at the Navy League’s annual Sea, Air, Space conference in Maryland earlier this week.



 
The article says the birds were sold to Canada, but was it to the RCAF as Cormorants, the RCAF as Cyclones, or to just a Canadian company in need of several helicopters? 


Edit: Upon  further reading of  sentences of this article which I missed... Disregard this post.
 
If they have not been used, why sold for parts?
 
uncle-midget-Oddball said:
The article says the birds were sold to Canada, but was it to the RCAF as Cormorants, the RCAF as Cyclones, or to just a Canadian company in need of several helicopters?

If it were to the RCAF, it would be as Cormorants.  The Cyclone isn't the same helicopter nor is it from the same manufacturer.

GAP said:
If they have not been used, why sold for parts?

They would be far more valuable to us as parts than as complete airframes.  Ever price a car built from spare parts?  ;D

 
Occam said:
If it were to the RCAF, it would be as Cormorants.  The Cyclone isn't the same helicopter nor is it from the same manufacturer.

Yes, see the edit to my previous post.  ;D
 
Here is an article I came across:

VH-71s for Canadian Service?

Monday January 30th 2012 - by Ken Pole






AgustaWestland will be making an unsolicited proposal to modify seven of the RCAF’s nine VH-71s bought as spare parts into the same configuration as its CH-149s. Michael Durning Photo







Last summer, the Canadian Department of National Defence (DND) purchased nine Lockheed Martin VH-71 Kestrel helicopters, in various stages of completion, from the United States government. The VH-71 is a variant of the AgustaWestland CH-149 (AW101) Cormorant search and rescue (SAR) helicopter currently in use by the Canadian military.




The U.S. Navy had selected the VH-71 in 2005 as its next-generation presidential helicopter, to replace its aging fleet of Sea Kings. But, after the projected costs for the VH-71 increased from $6.5 billion US to $13 billion, the Obama administration canceled the program in 2009. Canada purchased the fleet for a reported $164 million Cdn.




The Canadian government has stated that it does not intend to put the helicopters into operational service, but will instead use them for spare parts. The availability of spare parts for Canada’s SAR helicopters has been an issue since the Cormorant first entered service with the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) about a decade ago. AgustaWestland and the IMP Group’s aerospace division, the Cormorant’s in-service support provider, have been making improvements when it comes to the availability of spare parts, but aircraft serviceability issues remain a concern. The acquisition of the VH-71s is expected to significantly improve the availability of spare parts, and therefore aircraft serviceability.




“This package is considered an excellent one-time opportunity for the RCAF to address long-standing CH-149 Cormorant fleet availability issues related to the availability of spare parts,” said DND spokesperson Kim Tulipan.




The VH-71 airframes, which were delivered last fall, are not in “flyable” condition. All nine VH-71s were flown by the U.S. Navy, including two that were heavily instrumented for certification purposes prior to the cancelation of the program, but they were far from airworthy when they arrived in Canada on 25 trucks. And, the RCAF plans on keeping it that way, despite calls to increase the size of Canada’s fleet of SAR helicopters from the 14 Cormorants that are currently operated at 9 Wing Gander, Nfld.; 14 Wing Greenwood, N.S.; and 19 Wing Comox, B.C. (The Cormorant had also been operated by 424 Transport and Rescue Squadron at 8 Wing Trenton, Ont., but their aircraft were swapped for Bell CH-146 Griffons, and their Cormorants were dispersed between Gander and Greenwood to help contend with aircraft serviceability issues on the East Coast.)




The RCAF said the VH-71 parts will be dispersed between the three bases where the Cormorants are operated. All nine VH-71s are currently stored in Halifax, N.S., at IMP.




Asked whether a decision to not make the VH-71s flyable was a question of the cost of crewing and supporting them, or whether it was simply that the current Cormorant fleet is considered adequate for its assigned role, DND offered this explanation: “They neither have valid airworthiness certificates nor are they configured for SAR missions (the VH-71 cabin differs significantly from the CH-149). There is no intent to modify these airframes and to fly them in order to increase the size of the CH-149 fleet.”




An Alternative View

AgustaWestland, though, is hoping to change RCAF’s mind with a proposal to modify seven of the nine VH-71s into the same configuration as the CH-149s, at a much lower cost than new helicopters, and press them into SAR service.




“It wouldn’t take too much to convert these airframes into a similar configuration to that of the Cormorant,” Jeremy Tracy, the company’s region Canada head, told Vertical 911 during a briefing at AgustaWestland’s sprawling facility in Yeovil, England. He conceded that modifying  the VH-71s “to being as Cormorant-compatible as possible” may not be what DND wishes to do, but offered a couple of cogent arguments in favor of the idea: 1) the call/perceived need for more SAR helicopters, and 2) Canadian sovereignty in the North.




Canada’s current helicopter SAR capability is essentially located on its East and West coasts, which means much of the country’s vast northern regions — where survival can be measured in hours rather than weeks or days during the winter months — is out of easy reach for the CH-149s. Tracy said one option would be to station the modified helicopters with the aforementioned 424 Sqn at 8 Wing Trenton, which is near the northern shores of Lake Ontario, halfway between Toronto and Ottawa. This squadron, which used to fly CH-149s, now often has its Lockheed CC-130H Hercules fixed-wing transports dispatched for northern SAR missions. Said Tracy, “They [RCAF] could put the whole VH-71 fleet into Trenton, because they are a slightly different fleet from the current Cormorant, and it would give you that commonality in one location.”




To utilize the aircraft the way Tracy mentioned, though, would involve dropping out the center cabin and replacing it with one similar to that of the CH-149. The estimated cost of the conversion will of course depend on the additional avionics changes potentially needed, as well as fleet commonality issues, but Tracy feels it can be done cost-effectively. 




“This would give Canada a fleet of helicopters that are suitable for SAR and sovereignty-type operations in the North,” said Tracy.




“We’re aware that there is no appetite within government to put Cormorants up there [at a northern base],” said Tracy, but an “elegant” solution would be to have aircraft stationed at lower latitudes, but dispatched to the North on a regular basis to demonstrate that “this is Canada’s responsibility.” He noted that despite Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s “very clear” resistance to the concept of a northern SAR base, the federal government is determined to have a presence in the region, if for no other reason than to re-affirm Canada’s control over the region’s mostly untapped natural resources.




What also might help in that respect is the air transportation kit (ATK) that was part of the original purchase of the VH-71s from the U.S. Navy. The ATK would allow a VH-71 to be quickly loaded and then transported by the RCAF’s CC-177 Globemaster strategic airlifter.




Along with AgustaWestland’s proposal for converting the Kestrels, the Anglo-Italian manufacturer will also be proposing a simultaneous midlife upgrade to the CH-149s. “We’re currently working proactively with DND on extending the capabilities of the Cormorant,” said Tracy, by increasing the alternate gross weight by 2,200 pounds (1,000 kilograms) and offering a twin-engine cruise capability to afford about an additional hour of endurance. The priority, however, will be various system improvements, including new avionics, and sensors that would incorporate technological advances of the past decade and enhance the SAR role well out into the projected 40-year service life of the CH-149s.
 
I suspect it would be good to slowly alter a few airframes so they are in reserve as replacement for losses and you could actually bring a couple up to airworthness so they could replace line machines due for major overhaul.
 
that's funny I was just saying today maybe we should replace the Griffons in Trenton with US 101-  similar to Voyageur/Labrador  maybe?
 
Given the reports of AgustaWestland paying a for-profit Ornge related company $6.7M or so after the not for profit publicly funded Ornge bought their helicopters, I would be leery of directing any additional public dollars to the company until a full investigation is completed.

 
Here is some news from Norway  via  defense aerospace.com

    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/149293/aw101-wins-norway-sar-competition.html



AgustaWestland to Final Negotiations 
 
(Source: Norwegian Ministry of Justice and Public Security; issued Nov. 8, 2013)
 


Like Canada, Norway has selected the AgustaWestland AW101 to meet its requirement for a Search And Rescue helicopter to replace the elderly Sea King. Plans call for the first helicopter to enter service in 2017, and for deliveries to be completed by 2020. (AW photo)
The Norwegian Government has decided to commence final negotiations with the company AgustaWestland Ltd. for the delivery of new search and rescue helicopters to replace the current Sea King.

"I am very pleased that we are now coming forward in the acquisition process for the new search and rescue helicopters," the Minister of Justice and Public Security Anders Anundsen states.

The Ministry of Justice and Public Security has today informed the four bidders Eurocopter, NHI, Sikorsky and AgustaWestland Ltd. that the latter is chosen as the preferred bidder for new SAR helicopters with related equipment and maintenance solutions to replace the current Sea King.

The aim is that the contract following final negotiations will be concluded by the end of the year. The contract includes 16 new SAR helicopters with an option for further 6, and ensures that the Sea King will be phased out across the country by the end of 2020.

AgustaWestland AW 101 is the candidate that in total, after intensive negotiations, best meets the demands for Norway's future SAR helicopter.

The new helicopters will be able to relieve significantly more people in distress, be noticeably faster and with longer range than today - under virtually all weather conditions.

Additionally, search capability and the possibility for medical treatment are significantly improved.

The acquisition process started on 21 October 2011 with the announcement of prequalification. Tender documents were released on 12. July 2012 and the offers was received from four bidders on 18 December the same year.

Introduction of the new SAR helicopters will start in 2017. In 2020, the new helicopters will have replaced the Sea King throughout the country.

 
DND hamstrung in efforts to convert former US presidential helicopters
CTV News
04 July 2014

OTTAWA -- Newly released documents say converting President Barack Obama's fleet of surplus helicopters for use in Canadian search-and-rescue would break a promise that National Defence made to acquire the aircraft in the first place.

Former defence minister Peter MacKay last year ordered the air force to re-examine whether any of the brand-new VH-71 helicopters, purchased to supply spare parts for Canada's Cormorant choppers, could be made operational.

He was at the time dealing with the fallout from an auditor general's report, which tore a strip off the Harper government over the state of the search-and-rescue system.

Documents show that even though MacKay became justice minister last year, he continued to champion the conversion idea, raising it with his successor Rob Nicholson last fall.

A briefing note prepared for Nicholson shows that converting the VH-71s for operational service would violate a written National Defence pledge that they would only be used for spares.

Although the air force appeared cool to MacKay's suggestion last year, it did assess the feasibility of putting some of the nine choppers back in the air and has not completely ditched the idea.
 
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