Cost of housing in Canada

[Brad Sallows]

Densifying a population doesn’t mean chopping down all the trees either. It means instead of having a ton of single dwelling homes you start building upwards and have more multi-story homes, apartment buildings/condos, etc. It means not having to take a car into work for 2 hour commutes each way and wasting all that fuel idling in traffic going nowhere anytime soon.

Part of densification is concentrating the jobs along with the people, so it absolutely guarantees that there will be commuters - everyone who wants more living space than they can afford in the dense area. The more jobs concentrate, the more commuters.

I suspect the solution to commuting lies not in fruitlessly trying to convince people to live in stacked shoeboxes or in extraordinarily expensive mass transit infrastructure which serves only a few corridors well, but rather in distributing office jobs.

[Add: of course, the loss of commercial tenants would further crimp major municipalities' tax revenues, so they're likely to resist it bitterly and continue to exacerbate the commuting "problem".]

 

[IKnowNothing]

Taken to extremes, including the trend line you proposed where the municipality represents the will of the people to acceptably enforce structure to the lives of those in its jurisdiction, can reasonable to some (obviously not your state-focused ‘best for the people, by (enough of) the people, Section 6 of the Charter, Rights of Mobility.

This isn't "a trend line I proposed", it's literally municipalities fulfilling their role and responsibility to oversee infrastructure and land use planning, under duly elected democratic representation. As they have previously done. For decades. Only people have been polarized into turning into a political football.

But in terms of "rights infringements." That's what I thought. Nothing to do with urban design or the 15 minute city concept as it is being applied in Canada. Manufactured outrage based on conspiracy theories and an egregiously applied slippery slope.

Increased investment in public transit and priority on pedestrian mobility does not infringe upon your charter rights.
Increased mixed-use and higher density residential in what would traditionally be a low density residential neighbourhood does not infringe upon your charter rights.

Hell even what Oxford is doing doesn't come close to infringing upon mobility rights. It essentially applying tolls to certain roads at certain times of day. We already have roads that are selectively closed, or one way at certain times, or no parking at certain times. We have HOV/Bus lanes. We have the Transitway in Ottawa.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

This isn't "a trend line I proposed", it's literally municipalities fulfilling their role and responsibility to oversee infrastructure and land use planning, under duly elected democratic representation. As they have previously done. For decades.

Except all that is gone under Bill 23. Queens park now tells cities/towns what they will do.
In Guelph here there is a hilarious line drawn on a map the city has been given of what Queens Park considers "downtown ". So painfully obvious that whomever was involved sat in an office and never even visited the city.

The even bigger pile of dung that Bill 23 left on everyone's front porch, is that the home owner no longer has an appeal process of building decisions...nor the municipality. If Galen Weston funnels enough money to push through and build a mega-mansion overlooking your backyard.....you have zero choice to even attempt to not eat the shit sandwich without a beverage.

Any proper planning in Ontario right now is a mess.....

 

[mariomike]

Oh, the train only runs to Niagara once a day through the week and that is in the evening the last time I looked although that is scheduled to change once the new stations are complete.

I'm planning a GO train trip to Niagara Falls. Always one of my favorite Ontario destinations. So, I wanted to check if the above information is current.

Union Direct Trip ( by train only - no bus ) to Niagara Falls : 3 each day, 7 days a week.

Niagara Falls Direct Trip ( by train only - no bus ) to Union : 3 each day, 7 days a week.

Presto $9.47 each way,

 

[lenaitch]

Personally I would rather the solution being spreading the jobs out across the country and having more spread out living but we don’t wish to do that. Instead we choose to pack them into the city centers despite thanks to technology there is no longer a need.

Urbanization is as much a social phenomena as it is an economic one. Large segments of the current younger generation seem to prefer to live smaller urban lives, and either willingly or by implication chose all that goes along with it. Living in close proximity to friends, family, their favourite restaurant, etc. seems to have outsized importance, certainly compared to other generations. To listen to many, the thought of moving out of the city to pursue employment simply isn't a consideration. Heck, to use Toronto as an example, many wouldn't consider moving north of Bloor St. and acquaintances who move to the wilds or Vaughan or Markham seem to be lost forever.

The 'move to the country' movement that accelerated during Covid was largely an older demographic, likely those more secure in their careers and could more easily negotiate a distance job. It seems the young folks, even those in IT or IT-friendly jobs still seem to want to be in the city. Even at that, I'm not convinced the urban flight to field or cottage will sustain. The country and the lake look a whole lot different in February.

 

[Weinie]

Urbanization is as much a social phenomena as it is an economic one. Large segments of the current younger generation seem to prefer to live smaller urban lives, and either willingly or by implication chose all that goes along with it. Living in close proximity to friends, family, their favourite restaurant, etc. seems to have outsized importance, certainly compared to other generations. To listen to many, the thought of moving out of the city to pursue employment simply isn't a consideration. Heck, to use Toronto as an example, many wouldn't consider moving north of Bloor St. and acquaintances who move to the wilds or Vaughan or Markham seem to be lost forever.

The 'move to the country' movement that accelerated during Covid was largely an older demographic, likely those more secure in their careers and could more easily negotiate a distance job. It seems the young folks, even those in IT or IT-friendly jobs still seem to want to be in the city. Even at that, I'm not convinced the urban flight to field or cottage will sustain. The country and the lake look a whole lot different in February.

Except those 65% of Canadians who don't live in urban.

 

[dapaterson]

Except those 65% of Canadians who don't live in urban.

Per StatsCan: In 2021, the rural population was 6,601,982 people, while the urban population was 30,389,999 people.

Population of urban areas growing faster than rural areas, although rural population still increasing

none

www150.statcan.gc.ca

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Per StatsCan: In 2021, the rural population was 6,601,982 people, while the urban population was 30,389,999 people.

Population of urban areas growing faster than rural areas, although rural population still increasing

none

www150.statcan.gc.ca

Good, I hope it keeps going that way. I can keep all the land for myself

What $400k gets you in Bumpkinville:

 

[YZT580]

I'm planning a GO train trip to Niagara Falls. Always one of my favorite Ontario destinations. So, I wanted to check if the above information is current.

Union Direct Trip ( by train only - no bus ) to Niagara Falls : 3 each day, 7 days a week.

Niagara Falls Direct Trip ( by train only - no bus ) to Union : 3 each day, 7 days a week.

Presto $9.47 each way,

SUMMER SCHEDULE YOU ARE IN LUCK. GOOD DEAL WHEN COMBINED WITH WEGO

 

[Quirky]

Good, I hope it keeps going that way. I can keep all the land for myself

What $400k gets you in Bumpkinville:

View attachment 79086

Better be no more than 2500sqft and have a charging port for an EV.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Better be no more than 2500sqft and have a charging port for an EV.

Heated with propane and a massive wood stove

Also 3500sqft

 

[RangerRay]

Per StatsCan: In 2021, the rural population was 6,601,982 people, while the urban population was 30,389,999 people.

Population of urban areas growing faster than rural areas, although rural population still increasing

none

www150.statcan.gc.ca

Based on what Stats Can considers “rural”, a lot of small towns and hamlets close to bigger centres are considered “urban”.

 

[Furniture]

Except all that is gone under Bill 23. Queens park now tells cities/towns what they will do.
In Guelph here there is a hilarious line drawn on a map the city has been given of what Queens Park considers "downtown ". So painfully obvious that whomever was involved sat in an office and never even visited the city.

The even bigger pile of dung that Bill 23 left on everyone's front porch, is that the home owner no longer has an appeal process of building decisions...nor the municipality. If Galen Weston funnels enough money to push through and build a mega-mansion overlooking your backyard.....you have zero choice to even attempt to not eat the shit sandwich without a beverage.

Any proper planning in Ontario right now is a mess.....

It happened because the municipalities failed to act, they drug their heels and gave in to suburban NIMBYs, and developers who wanted to sell lots of easy to build detached homes at a huge profit.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

It happened because the municipalities failed to act, they drug their heels and gave in to suburban NIMBYs, and developers who wanted to sell lots of easy to build detached homes at a huge profit.

The Places To Grow Act already fixed that problem a few years ago. All this Bill does is screw municipalities of money used for the infrastructure to be able to handle new builds with no mechanism to ensure the developers pass on any savings. It's basically up to present home owners to pony up the money for the new infrastructure.

 

[Furniture]

The Places To Grow Act already fixed that problem a few years ago. All this Bill does is screw municipalities of money used for the infrastructure to be able to handle new builds with no mechanism to ensure the developers pass on any savings. It's basically up to present home owners to pony up the money for the new infrastructure.

Clearly it didn't work as intended, because any municipalities still stalled and delayed development projects.

I'm not defending the bill, I'm just pointing out that it came about because municipalities had failed in their duty to all residents, rather than just the influential suburbs.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Too bad it was so badly thought out that it has made the lack of housing worse . The whole time it was debated no new builds started, (why would you when all you have to do is wait to make many thousands more on each build?), and now some municipalities are turning down all new builds as they say they can't afford the infrastructure.

I'm a huge fan of the present Ontario govt, except on this huge 100% screw-up. It's a black eye to common sense.....

 

[Brad Sallows]

Builders build what people want to buy. Best to write legislation to change what people are allowed to desire.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Clearly it didn't work as intended, because any municipalities still stalled and delayed development projects.

What if I told you that there were already a million plus homes already greenlit and permited in Ontario?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Except all that is gone under Bill 23. Queens park now tells cities/towns what they will do.
In Guelph here there is a hilarious line drawn on a map the city has been given of what Queens Park considers "downtown ". So painfully obvious that whomever was involved sat in an office and never even visited the city.

I particularly liked the parachute redraws of Fergus,Elora, and Clifford.

That said act isn't more controversial is crazy. It sounded good at first, but upon closer inspection it was all smoke and mirrors to throw unearned blame onto municipalities while shovelling money in to donor developer's pockets, much of which is at taxpayers expense.

 

[mariomike]

Population of urban areas growing faster than rural areas, although rural population still increasing

none

www150.statcan.gc.ca

I was curious as to why the population of urban Canada is growing at a faster rate than rural Canada.

According to this, it may have something to do with a "growing intergenerational imbalance."

Aging in rural Canada

Published online by Cambridge University Press: 18 December 2021

More than a quarter of Canadians aged 65 or older live in rural areas, as proportionately, the population of older Canadians tends to be higher in rural areas (Menec et al, 2015). Canadian rural populations also have a higher ratio of older adults to working-age adults (known as the old-age dependency ratio). The growing intergenerational imbalance is explained by the dual process of (1) rural youth migration to urban centres for employment, and (2) older Canadians relocating from urban and suburban to rural areas for retirement (Forbes and Hawranik, 2012).

1 and 2.

With the migration pattern shown, I wonder if rural Canada will be able to meet the demand for medical service of an aging population.