Cost of housing in Canada

[Eaglelord17]

Keep in mind the number of houses being built currently isn’t always increasing supply. Knocking down a smaller older house and replacing it with a bigger one on the same lot isn’t increasing housing supply.

If you listen to the great NDP leader, we got to get rid of all the Corporate landlords and build more co-op housing.

Who does he think is going to build the co-op housing? Individuals or incorporated house building companies.

I personally don’t believe corporations should own single dwelling homes/homes not designed/intended for renting.

Individuals? Sure. Corporations? No. I only need to look at the amount of properties bought up by scummy companies locally that haven’t paid their property taxes, never bothered to rent the properties, and have generally let them be neglected all to try and ‘profit’ off the increased land value later.

If a individual doesn’t pay property tax the home is sold. If a corporation does it it goes into bankruptcy protection, and worst case is liquidated with no real risk to the companies owners.

This also allows for some pure capitalism instead of companies leveraging tons of equity from other properties to buy up the supply.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Mobile homes - tried that too. If you are able to get a serviced lot at a reasonable price it could work in at least some areas. If you have to buy the trailer in a park though the benefit may not be there that is expected as you have the mortgage/loan payments along with the lot fee.

Manufactured modular homes (as opposed to “mobile homes”) often far exceed the quality standards of mass residential and especially cookie cutter builds common to big cities. They are cheaper to build per square foot, faster, customized, niche, and warranty the same as new home warranty.

See here for a great example of a well established custom home builder who constructs and assembles as much as possible in a quality control facility, ships to site, assembles, finishes and hands over the keys. Usually a 60-75 day process per house and he typically has a new start every week on 3 assembly lines.

Projects Showcase

These homes are worth a second, third, and fourth look. Who knew modular was so modern!

www.chaparralbuilt.com

I’ve been in the place, they built an 1800 sq ft split for our farm as “secondary residence”- it is top drawer everything from specs, to materials, trim, accessories- all of it.

 

[IKnowNothing]

It does not address the elephant in the room: density without infrastructure.

You still need proper water, sewage, electricity, and telecommunications infrastructure to build these homes to make them viable. You still need roads and services to keep those residents happy. Those costs skyrocket when you build a trailer park, compared to an apartment/condo building.

Horses for courses / apples and elephants

An apartment building/condo complex/ stacked townhomes that tie into existing urban infrastructure is undoubtedly more efficient where feasible.

Land lease in a rural setting? Different ballgame. A couple of shared wells, integrated septic/grey water system, a single properly specc'd transformer and fibre drop- you've pretty cheaply created a nice little 64 home community out of 15 acres of mediocre agricultural land with no access to municipal service- on the landowner/developers dime.

If this sounds a little too specific- it's because there's one not 5 minutes from where I live, another 20 minutes away (that one 125 lots)

It certainly doesn't solve the nationwide crisis. But for non-GTA SW Ontario and rural communities that got gentrified almost over night it could relieve a lot of the local pressure if we had even a handful get approved and actioned

 

[Cloud Cover]

Horse for courses / apples and elephants

An apartment building/condo complex stacked townhomes that tie into existing urban infrastructure is undoubtedly more efficient where feasible.

Land lease in a rural setting? Different ballgame. A couple of shared wells, integrated septic/grey water system, a single properly specc'd transformer and fibre drop- you've pretty cheaply created a nice little 64 home community out of 15 acres of mediocre agricultural land with no access to municipal service- on the landowner/developers dime.

If this sounds a little too specific- it's because there's one not 5 minutes from where I live, another 20 minutes away (that one 125 lots)

It certainly doesn't solve the nationwide crisis. But for non-GTA SW Ontario and rural communities that got gentrified almost over night it could relieve a lot of the local pressure if we had even a handful get approved and actioned

Pretty sure this is what happened by default and not design up the west side of the Shuswap.

 

[YZT580]

What about land lease as an option? Governments control or own large acreages around urban areas. Even in our small town there are a number of closed schools and outdated municipal buildings that have been put on the market and will now be developed as very expensive subdivisions. If the municipal government had created their own plans and then were selling the homes with a lease on the land perhaps the costs could be kept down.

In reply to an earlier note on foreign students. When my children went to university the average tuition was about 6000 per year, the university had sufficient residences for all first year students and about 1/3 was given over to foreign students: no more. A grade average of better than 80 would get you one of your college choices. Now enrolment seems to be closer to 2/3 foreign students and enrolment has more than tripled in the last 15 to 20 years and unless your marks are A to A+ you might as well give up on the better colleges. Can't blame the colleges as they are in it for the money and they can get double and triple the fees from foreign students. But they haven't built dorms to equal the enrolment instead relying on local businesses to divvy up run-down houses into flop houses for 8 or 10 or more students; each paying what a grand? Whatever those closets featured earlier are going for that is the price. So stop the foreign students until Canadian students are accommodated and residences catch up with enrolment. You can't expect some kid off the boat to be able to pin down a room that first time in Toronto or VR.

 

[Cloud Cover]

A prime example of what’s happening with Community Colleges in Ontario. It’s not just Conestoga, either although they are the worst. Fanshawe, Sheridan, George Brown, Humber- all of them.
It’s absolutely shocking how a handful of administrators and an absolutely idiotic immigration (now housing) minister have killed the quality of the college system and destroyed housing affordability. Also the fact that Canadian born students can’t go (or won’t go) to these colleges is hugely problematic for generations to come.

 

[mariomike]

This report may be of interest to Canadians who dream of moving to the U.S.

The median home price ( in USD ) in Vancouver is higher than LA and Boston.

Canada’s most expensive real estate market, Vancouver, has the third-largest gap between max affordability and median home price just behind San Diego. With a median income less than half of that in San Francisco, households in Vancouver can afford a home costing around $332,863 – a whopping $543,656 below the benchmark price.

The median home price ( in USD ) in Toronto is higher than major U.S. cities, including New York City, Miami, Nashville, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, and Philadelphia.

Though Toronto’s median income is comparable to Dallas, with Toronto at $62,963 and Dallas at $63,985, housing affordability in each city is far from similar. The median home price in Toronto is $718,519 while in Dallas it is much lower at $393,650. This results in a difference of just $107,093 between maximum affordability and the median home price in Dallas, while in Toronto, the gap more than triples that of Dallas. Households earning the median income in Toronto can afford homes costing around $355,892, which is $362,627 less than the median home price.

Hamilton-Burlington, Kitchener-Waterloo, Montreal, Ottawa, Halifax, Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Saskatoon, and St. John N.B. are also included in the report.

How Much More Affordable is Housing in the US Compared to Canada?​

How Much More Affordable is Housing in the US Compared to Canada? | Zoocasa Blog

When it comes to housing affordability, prospective buyers across North America are facing a narrowing range of options. As home prices have increased, so Explore the affordability gap in housing between the US and Canada, revealing how median incomes, average home prices, and mortgage rates...

www.zoocasa.com

 

[Aper]

If I move out, might as well be in Mexico

 

[lenaitch]

Manufactured modular homes (as opposed to “mobile homes”) often far exceed the quality standards of mass residential and especially cookie cutter builds common to big cities. They are cheaper to build per square foot, faster, customized, niche, and warranty the same as new home warranty.

See here for a great example of a well established custom home builder who constructs and assembles as much as possible in a quality control facility, ships to site, assembles, finishes and hands over the keys. Usually a 60-75 day process per house and he typically has a new start every week on 3 assembly lines.

Projects Showcase

These homes are worth a second, third, and fourth look. Who knew modular was so modern!

www.chaparralbuilt.com

I’ve been in the place, they built an 1800 sq ft split for our farm as “secondary residence”- it is top drawer everything from specs, to materials, trim, accessories- all of it.

And I think the lack of clarity in terms is something some people, including some municipalities, struggle with. 'Prefabricated', 'engineered', 'modular' are often used interchangeably. There are a number of manufacturers of what I will call engineered homes. I have been in a couple (Royal, Guildcrest, etc. in Ontario) and my brother-in-law just had a Guildcrest built/assembled and it is a fine home. It's a long drive from these to something that has wheels on it.

 

[mariomike]

Royal LePage

April 12, 2024

Toronto home prices expected to soar past even Vancouver's this year.

Royal LePage upgrades national year-end home price forecast as Canadian real estate market hits ‘critical tipping point’ | Royal LePage

www.royallepage.ca

Royal LePage predicts that the aggregate price of a home in the GTA will surpass Greater Vancouver in the second half of 2024.

CBC

12 Apr., 2024

GTA housing prices expected to surpass Vancouver in 2024​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-housing-prices-surpass-van-1.7171761

 

[brihard]

The LPC have released their new national housing plan. It’s pretty wide ranging and comprehensive, and they’re pushing a lot of chips into the middle of the table. I think we’re seeing their biggest election platform plank, and they’ve put a lot of specifics out there that will basically challenge the CPC to offer viable alternatives.

Lots of incentifvization for provinces by tying federal infrastructure funding to certain housing-related criteria. They’ve also signalled an intent and willingness to bypass provinces who don’t want to play, and to offer financial supports directly to municipal efforts if needed to get things done

Some mention of creating more skilled labour including through attracting young Canadians into the skilled trades, better recognition of foreign credentials, and working on commonizing trade tickets across provinces for better labour mobility.

A fair bit of mention of increased options for first time homebuyer savings, including both through accessing RRSP funds but also expanding their ‘tax free in - tax free out’ first time homebuyers account.

This is lengthy but worth a read.

Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada - Solving the Housing Crisis: Canada's Housing Plan

Canada’s Housing Plan is making housing more attainable and affordable for Canadians, because everyone deserves a place to call home.

www.infrastructure.gc.ca

 

[Good2Golf]

Interesting lead on the campaign pre-trail, but equally interesting to see how this part plays out…after all, Provinces and Territories have constitutional powers, municipalities don’t. In the Federation, there is a Federal Government, and the Provinces and Territories.

They’ve also signalled an intent and willingness to bypass provinces who don’t want to play, and to offer financial supports directly to municipal efforts if needed to get things done

It would fit in with Trudeau’s more recent “Fuddle duddle to you, provinces!” stand…

 

[brihard]

Interesting lead on the campaign pre-trail, but equally interesting to see how this part plays out…after all, Provinces and Territories have constitutional powers, municipalities don’t. In the Federation, there is a Federal Government, and the Provinces and Territories.



It would fit in with Trudeau’s more recent “Fuddle duddle to you, provinces!” stand…

Yes; municipalities are creations of the province, and have no inherent constitutional powers, but that doesn’t preclude the federal government from helping them to pay for things they can legally do. We already see direct federal financial assistance to major municipal infrastructure projects. If the city of Ottawa wants federal money for another LRT extension, and the feds say “sure, but only if you approve a certain amount of high density housing within 800m of stations”, I don’t see that that wouldn’t be viable.

 

[mariomike]

AND THEY ARE PRESENTING IT AS A TEAR-DOWN. 1.8 MIL. FOR A BUILDING LOT

Look at those massive monster stone cold looking boxes on both sides of it. What the heck are people thinking? No veranda, no charm, all wealth and no warmth. Just large and ostentatious.

Gotta luv McMansion Hell - Canadian Edition

Worst of McMansions: Canada Edition

Hello Friends! Today I’m going to do something different. As you all know, this past week has been very stressful for those of us living in the USA. Rather than write a document about mortgages and...

mcmansionhell.com

From 2017. Maybe things have improved since then. Or, maybe not.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Yes; municipalities are creations of the province, and have no inherent constitutional powers, but that doesn’t preclude the federal government from helping them to pay for things they can legally do. We already see direct federal financial assistance to major municipal infrastructure projects. If the city of Ottawa wants federal money for another LRT extension, and the feds say “sure, but only if you approve a certain amount of high density housing within 800m of stations”, I don’t see that that wouldn’t be viable.

Trudeau needs to watch which beehives he sticks his hand into. This is wading pretty damn far into Constitutional crisis area.

Under the Division of powers stated in the Constitution Act and BNA Act, the Provinces can collapse municipal governments at will (and have for less). That's without using the Notwithstanding Clause and will most likely not see the SCC touch it with a ten foot pole, because it's spelled out in the above-stated Acts in detail.

I can easily see Doug Ford, Danielle Smith, or Scott Moe dissolving a City Council; just to stick it to Trudeau for not staying the hell out of their kitchen. "You wanted to go around us, well... now here we are.... lets discuss a few things."

 

[brihard]

Trudeau needs to watch which beehives he sticks his hand into. This is wading pretty damn far into Constitutional crisis area.

Under the Division of powers stated in the Constitution Act and BNA Act, the Provinces can collapse municipal governments at will (and have for less). That's without using the Notwithstanding Clause and will most likely not see the SCC touch it with a ten foot pole, because it's spelled out in the above-stated Acts in detail.

I can easily see Doug Ford, Danielle Smith, or Scott Moe dissolving a City Council; just to stick it to Trudeau for not staying the hell out of their kitchen. "You wanted to go around us, well... now here we are.... lets discuss a few things."

Constitutional crisis? No it’s not, and you’re being dramatic. They’re not proposing to redistribute constitutional powers or to usurp the authorities of the provinces. They’re offering pretty considerable financial incentives to push housing growth, and as part of this are offering significant conditional assistance with municipal infrastructure. They want and intend to do that through funding provincial programs, but if a given province doesn’t want to establish such a program, they can offer infrastructure support directly to municipalities.

Say Calgary were to ask for federal funding to further expand its commuter rail system. Feds say “yup, but show us the plans to approve x amount of high density housing proximate to the new stations”. The city does so and also asks for help upgrading wastewater infrastructure in certain neighbourhoods targeted for growth and densification. The feds agree to do so.

You propose that the province of Alberta, not having established a provincial program to access and control the purse strings over this federal funding, is upset by this (very plausible). You suggest the province could choose to collapse a municipal government for directly accessing federal funding to directly or indirectly expand housing. Could the province do this? Maybe. I take your word for it that they can. Would that be constitutionally lawful? Again I take your word that yes it would be. It would not be a constitutional crisis, but it would certainly be a bold political play and maybe a democratic crisis inasmuch as it stomps on the will of the city’s voters expressed in electing their council.

I think a province scuppering a municipal government to punish them for taking direct federal funding to build infrastructure and to address something everyone agrees is a problem would be a hell of a move and would carry great political risk for that government. The only government stupid enough to do that would, I guess, be a government stupid enough to do that.

Out of curiosity did you actually read the plan yet or just reply to that one part of my comment?

 

[Remius]

Trudeau needs to watch which beehives he sticks his hand into. This is wading pretty damn far into Constitutional crisis area.

Under the Division of powers stated in the Constitution Act and BNA Act, the Provinces can collapse municipal governments at will (and have for less). That's without using the Notwithstanding Clause and will most likely not see the SCC touch it with a ten foot pole, because it's spelled out in the above-stated Acts in detail.

I can easily see Doug Ford, Danielle Smith, or Scott Moe dissolving a City Council; just to stick it to Trudeau for not staying the hell out of their kitchen. "You wanted to go around us, well... now here we are.... lets discuss a few things."

As long as people at all levels keep blaming Trudeau for the housing crisis, it will give him license to try and fix it.

People can’t have it both ways.

 

[Rifleman62]

Calgary or any city plans housing (that takes time), asks for the funds from the government. The government then spends three years verifying all the T's are dotted and the I's crossed.

Result no money, but lots of BS.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

As long as people at all levels keep blaming Trudeau for the housing crisis, it will give him license to try and fix it.

People can’t have it both ways.

The problem is that the crisis his government created won’t be fixed in any of the ways that the Liberals propose.

They created structural problems in the Canadian economy: moribund growth; runaway immigration; inflation. The fixes to housing they are proposing a either fever dreams or cosmetic.

 

[Remius]

The problem is that the crisis his government created won’t be fixed in any of the ways that the Liberals propose.

That’s if we place the entire thing at their feet. We all know that local bureaucracy and NIMBYism plays a huge role in that calculation.

They created structural problems in the Canadian economy: moribund growth; runaway immigration; inflation. The fixes to housing they are proposing a either fever dreams or cosmetic.

All of them?

Housing, Infrastructure and Communities Canada - Solving the Housing Crisis: Canada's Housing Plan

Canada’s Housing Plan is making housing more attainable and affordable for Canadians, because everyone deserves a place to call home.

www.infrastructure.gc.ca

I have already looked a few of these but all of these things seem like enablers to me that Feds can influence.

The public land lease, low cost loans for 2nd dwellings, the first time home buyer savings accounts etc. These seem like winners.

Something tells me a CPC government will be keeping a lot of these when or if they take office.