Cost of housing in Canada

[Halifax Tar]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/salary-location-pandemic-moves-1.6254276

WFH enabling people to afford better housing.

This and retirees buying up housing in the maritimes has inflated our market out of reach of the locals.

I suppose it's helping the affluent from central Canada, but it's sure not helping everyone.

And for the record I think WFH should be embraced.

 

[Remius]

This and retirees buying up housing in the maritimes has inflated our market out of reach of the locals.

I suppose it's helping the affluent from central Canada, but it's sure not helping everyone.

And for the record I think WFH should be embraced.

Depends on the area I guess. I see it more as eventually, long term people from smaller areas being able to stay or return and inject their money into their communities. Plenty of economically depressed areas that can benefit.

Edit: your point about the maritimes. I would think that with the aging population issue in the maritimes that attracting younger people with jobs and families, that this would be a win win scenario.

I thought the maritimes were keen on getting people to move to the maritimes. Or are maritimers against that?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Depends on the area I guess. I see it more as eventually, long term people from smaller areas being able to stay or return and inject their money into their communities. Plenty of economically depressed areas that can benefit.

I guess. It sure doesn't help people looking for housing right now.

 

[Remius]

I guess. It sure doesn't help people looking for housing right now.

I put an édit in my post with a question in regards to people moving to the maritimes.

I could see that competition for housing being an issue. So that would still be a supply issue not meeting demand then.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Depends on the area I guess. I see it more as eventually, long term people from smaller areas being able to stay or return and inject their money into their communities. Plenty of economically depressed areas that can benefit.

Edit: your point about the maritimes. I would think that with the aging population issue in the maritimes that attracting younger people with jobs and families, that this would be a win win scenario.

I thought the maritimes were keen on getting people to move to the maritimes. Or are maritimers against that?

The Gov of NS wants Halifax to be a million person city in a few decades, and province to double in that same time. So officially they ( I refuse to be called a martimer, I'm an Ontarian) want the growth. I can't speak for PEI or NB.

But I can tell you that there is strong resistance to the growth. And they are going through a bit of a culture war at the moment as Halifax transitions from a sleepy maritime town to a bustling city.

Sure supply is an issue, and that supply is further hampered by non locals gobbling up property at inflated prices.

For context google tells me:

Average Rent:
1 BDRM = $1950
3 BDRM = $3040

Average House Price:
$529,900

For further context 12 years ago we bought our house for $239,000 which was about average and we were paying $800 a month for a 2 BDRM apartment.

No doubt it's a supply issue. And the remote work types and retirees aren't helping that.

 

[Furniture]

The Gov of NS wants Halifax to be a million person city in a few decades, and province to double in that same time. So officially they ( I refuse to be called a martimer, I'm an Ontarian) want the growth. I can't speak for PEI or NB.

But I can tell you that there is strong resistance to the growth. And they are going through a bit of a culture war at the moment as Halifax transitions from a sleepy maritime town to a bustling city.

Sure supply is an issue, and that supply is further hampered by non locals gobbling up property at inflated prices.

For context google tells me:

Average Rent:
1 BDRM = $1950
3 BDRM = $3040

Average House Price:
$529,900

For further context 12 years ago we bought our house for $239,000 which was about average and we were paying $800 a month for a 2 BDRM apartment.

No doubt it's a supply issue. And the remote work types and retirees aren't helping that.

I think a lot of people haven't yet adjusted their thinking based on those prices.

In 2010 a $1500 mortgage for a 3 bedroom home was seen as reasonable in most places. In 2023 that won't get you a one bedroom apartment.... This is not a small problem, and it's not getting any better. Wages have gone up, but not nearly enough to bridge the gap.

 

[Quirky]

The Gov of NS wants Halifax to be a million person city in a few decades

You mean generations, right?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think a lot of people haven't yet adjusted their thinking based on those prices.

In 2010 a $1500 mortgage for a 3 bedroom home was seen as reasonable in most places. In 2023 that won't get you a one bedroom apartment.... This is not a small problem, and it's not getting any better. Wages have gone up, but not nearly enough to bridge the gap.

Exactly, for the record my mortgage is less than the cost of a 1 BDRM apartment now.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You mean generations, right?

Nope. I think I heard something like 2050.

 

[Rd651]

Exactly, for the record my mortgage is less than the cost of a 1 BDRM apartment now.

In 2006 I bought a semi detached, 3 br house in Eastern Passage for 124k, sold 3yrs later for 150k, that same house sold last year for over 400k, unreal!

 

[Halifax Tar]

In 2006 I bought a semi detached, 3 br house in Eastern Passage for 124k, sold 3yrs later for 150k, that same house sold last year for over 400k, unreal!

I think you mean ridiculous ?

 

[Furniture]

You mean generations, right?

Never underestimate the ability of governments and experts to view things in isolation.

1 million residents means "x" dollars of tax revenue. That's how government sees it. They don't consider cultural changes, housing issues, traffic issues, or other services, just "x" people means "x" revenue to spend on buying votes.

Look at COVID, governments listened to the health experts, and ignored the financial and social experts warning about damage caused by lockdowns.

 

[Remius]

The Gov of NS wants Halifax to be a million person city in a few decades, and province to double in that same time. So officially they ( I refuse to be called a martimer, I'm an Ontarian) want the growth. I can't speak for PEI or NB.

But I can tell you that there is strong resistance to the growth. And they are going through a bit of a culture war at the moment as Halifax transitions from a sleepy maritime town to a bustling city.

Sure supply is an issue, and that supply is further hampered by non locals gobbling up property at inflated prices.

For context google tells me:

Average Rent:
1 BDRM = $1950
3 BDRM = $3040

Average House Price:
$529,900

For further context 12 years ago we bought our house for $239,000 which was about average and we were paying $800 a month for a 2 BDRM apartment.

No doubt it's a supply issue. And the remote work types and retirees aren't helping that.

Thanks.

So then attracting workers is not desirable? Retirees I can understand, workers like WFH types I don’t.

Attracting someone who will work from home or on location is still a worker and will still need housing one way or another.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Thanks.

So then attracting workers is not desirable? Retirees I can understand, workers like WFH types I don’t.

Attracting someone who will work from home or on location is still a worker and will still need housing one way or another.

It depends, if you're the NS Gov and you want the tax revenue; it's great. If you're the average person trying to find a place to live and/or use the hospital; it's bad.

It's not so black and white.

 

[Furniture]

Thanks.

So then attracting workers is not desirable? Retirees I can understand, workers like WFH types I don’t.

Attracting someone who will work from home or on location is still a worker and will still need housing one way or another.

Attracting more people than the system can sustain is the problem.

Like Canadian cities at large, cities in the maritimes have maintained the "small town" approach to planning. Apartments and condos are an athema to city planners because powerful NIMBY groups oppose changing the "character" of neighborhoods.

As an example, in Charolttetown people generally oppose more low rise apartments, because it will mean that it seems less "small town".... Charlottetown hasn't been the version people imagine it as since 2001 when I left for the CAF. Charlottetown has less than 1% vacancy for rentals. Islanders working Island jobs can't afford to live on PEI, no amount of WFH mainlanders makes that more acceptable to locals.

 

[Remius]

It depends, if you're the NS Gov and you want the tax revenue; it's great. If you're the average person trying to find a place to live and/or use the hospital; it's bad.

It's not so black and white.

Oh I’m not saying it’s black and white. It’s just I find it odd that with the population decline in that area over the years finally being stopped and people moving there from other parts of the country that it would be a bigger benefit. But as with most places in the country it seems that they didn’t plan the housing part very well.

I have read though that one of the real issues is investor owned property is one of the main issue. Something like 25% of homes in NS are investor owned and almost half of new builds get gobbled up by them. This isn’t unique to that area though it’s Canada wide as far as I can tell.

Question: Does the Naval Base play any role in the housing crunch in Halifax?

 

[IKnowNothing]

I wasn't just referring to you.

The report deals with detached single family homes, I'm not particularly concerned with them specifically. The factors that make them expensive contribute to rising costs of rentals, but they aren't the only driving factor. Housing is more than just detached single family homes, but for decades that is what has been pushed by governments at all levels, at the expense of densification. There would be less demand for detached homes if there had been more emphasis on densification in walkable neighbourhoods with reliable and convenient transit 20-30 years ago.

Agreed with the bolded 100%.

Attracting more people than the system can sustain is the problem.

Like Canadian cities at large, cities in the maritime have maintained the "small town" approach to planning. Apartments and condos are an athema to city planners because powerful NIMBY groups oppose changing the "character" of neighborhoods.

As an example, in Charolttetown people generally oppose more low rise apartments, because it will mean that it seems less "small town".... Charlottetown hasn't been the version people imagine it as since 2001 when I left for the CAF. Charlottetown has less than 1% vacancy for rentals. Islanders working Island jobs can't afford to live on PEI, no amount of WFH mainlanders makes that more acceptable to locals.

This describes large swathes of small town southern Ontario as well. Most want the growth (but we werent ready for it so fast), supply pinch pricing locals out of town, cohorts of nymbys don't want townhouses near their 1 acre in town lots

 

[Halifax Tar]

Question: Does the Naval Base play any role in the housing crunch in Halifax?

I really doubt it. The RCNs personnel footprint isn't what it used to be. And Shearwater is no different.

But I honestly can't say with any authority.

 

[Remius]

Attracting more people than the system can sustain is the problem.

Like Canadian cities at large, cities in the maritime have maintained the "small town" approach to planning. Apartments and condos are an athema to city planners because powerful NIMBY groups oppose changing the "character" of neighborhoods.

As an example, in Charolttetown people generally oppose more low rise apartments, because it will mean that it seems less "small town".... Charlottetown hasn't been the version people imagine it as since 2001 when I left for the CAF. Charlottetown has less than 1% vacancy for rentals. Islanders working Island jobs can't afford to live on PEI, no amount of WFH mainlanders makes that more acceptable to locals.

But then what happens with an aging population that doesn’t get replaced and a younger population that leaves?

Again seems like a supply issue that isn’t meeting the needs of growing your population.

A balancing act indeed.

Thanks for the example.

 

[Furniture]

But then what happens with an aging population that doesn’t get replaced and a younger population that leaves?

Again seems like a supply issue that isn’t meeting the needs of growing your population.

A balancing act indeed.

Thanks for the example.

PEI is a weird, small, and starchy microcosm of the overall Canadian issue.

My parents are exactly the people who contribute to the problem, they are the most NIMBY of NIMBYs, so every time I go home I get a front row seat to the issues.