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Cost of housing in Canada

My parents left school at age 15 and went on to trades training and apprenticeships.
My mother was 16 when she married a military man. At 13 my father told the authorities not to bother him about me as I was responsible for myself. I am sure neither of them would have any of us living with them into our 30s unless it was us supporting and caring for them. Now we expect our kids to be with us forever as we don't see them getting their own place.
 
My mother was 16 when she married a military man. At 13 my father told the authorities not to bother him about me as I was responsible for myself. I am sure neither of them would have any of us living with them into our 30s unless it was us supporting and caring for them. Now we expect our kids to be with us forever as we don't see them getting their own place.

You could also put a down-payment on a house for 6 onions and a letter from your boss in those days.

Many of the current problems we are seeing with younger people moving out is not due to their lack of desire or "failure to launch"; its that the game has changed significantly from generations prior to the point that you cannot play cricket and wonder why kids are losing at baseball.
 
You could also put a down-payment on a house for 6 onions and a letter from your boss in those days.

Many of the current problems we are seeing with younger people moving out is not due to their lack of desire or "failure to launch"; its that the game has changed significantly from generations prior to the point that you cannot play cricket and wonder why kids are losing at baseball.
Couldn't get 6 onions at a time, kept eating them. The boss couldn't write so never gave the letter.

Kids don't lose at baseball anymore, everyone is a winner and gets a trophy.

I have a slightly different perspective on why some of the younger people are not moving out. I see in some cases that the parents they have are more encouraging of them to stay with them instead. Might just be my perspective but it seems to be a generational thing not wanting to do to their kids what was done to them and have them go through all the anxiety they went through.
 
You don't have my family :ROFLMAO:

Does that account for pets and the teen mentality where by each needs their own massive room, walk in closet and bathroom (no mine didn't get that but they would like to)?

I fully agree that there is a big difference in many cases between need and want with may desiring that big house/mansion for the social status.
take a driive around any older part of any town and you will see the average home ranges from 1000 to 1500 sq. ft. max. The line of big homes on the high end of town belonged to the gentry. Most people in old Toronto had row houses that were maybe 15 ft. wide. Families had a minimum of 2 and usually 4 to 6. Lot of Catholics and for those who weren't, lousy birth control. And teens learnt really early the meaning of the word no
 
Kids don't lose at baseball anymore, everyone is a winner and gets a trophy.
That happened around the time my generation would have been those kids.

I always counter that argument with who was handing out the trophies, instead of taking on the emotion labour of teaching how to lose with pride and win with grace? Not the kid that was 6 and had no say in the matter.

I ran track and wrestled. You either won, or lost. No "almost winning" there.

I have a slightly different perspective on why some of the younger people are not moving out. I see in some cases that the parents they have are more encouraging of them to stay with them instead. Might just be my perspective but it seems to be a generational thing not wanting to do to their kids what was done to them and have them go through all the anxiety they went through.
And in all honesty, we should want better for our kids.

I was homeless at the age of 18 for 6 months before I went to CFLRS (because I was 18 and didnt have a job yet..). I couch hopped. I used what little savings I had from working that summer. I dumpster dived. When it was bad, there were some nights I roughed it. I would never in a thousand years want to do that to my kids because "well its time you grew up and took responsibility for yourself, while you're also still not fully mature to do so."

In this economy, fuck it. Stay and build your finances. If you're going to school, room and board are on me (tuition is your own problem). If youre working, help out with the bills. If you're looking for a free ride, well, not gonna happen.

When I say I don't expect my kids to leave until their 30s, its not me saying they're going to be 30 going on 13.... its more of a "I'd rather you rent from us at a reasonable rate than get gouged like everyone else is..."
 
When I say I don't expect my kids to leave until their 30s, its not me saying they're going to be 30 going on 13.... its more of a "I'd rather you rent from us at a reasonable rate than get gouged like everyone else is..."
Extension of that thought process- assuming you're having mature collaborative discussions about these things, and have been carrying the expenses without their help- why charge any rent outside of the direct marginal increase that their presence is causing vice having their "rent" be diverted into getting ahead?
 
Population, education and housing

My Canadian "hometown" is as good an exemplar as any.

Peterborough Government School
1826​
Peterborough Union School
1854​
Peterborough Union School - Co-Ed
1868​
Peterborough Collegiate Institute
1871​
Peterborough Collegiate and Vocational Institute
1927​
Kenner Collegiate Vocational Institute
1952​
Adam Scott Collegiate and Vocational Institute
1960​
Crestwood Secondary School
1963​
Thomas A Stewart Secondary School
1967​
Trent University
1963​
Sir Sandford Fleming College of Applied Arts and Technology
1967​
Ontario Vocational Centre
1962​
Fanshawe College of Applied Arts and Technology
1967​
Conestoga College of Applied Arts and Technology
1967​
Humber College of Applied Arts and Technology
1967​

The Robinson Settlers (and yes, that is what the locals referred to them as) arrived in Peterborough in 1825. The settlers were Catholics from Cork. Robinson was an Anglican veteran of the 1812. The first school was established in 1826 by an Irish Presbyterian trained at Glasgow University that turned Anglican on arrival in Canada. The Bishop Strachan's Anglican Establishment and the Family Compact were strong in those days. The only authorised schools were Anglican. Neither Catholics nor Presbyterians, nor Methodists, were permitted to access the land set aside by the Crown for schools and Bishop Strachan, a Scots Anglican, was adamant that he would preserve his church's privileges.

Enter William Lyon Mackenzie and the 1837.

But...

Moving forwards.

Peterborough grew slowly between 1826 and 1904.
In 1904 it started to boom with the Trent Severn Canal and the Lift Locks being built. The Waterway was built over the century from 1820 to 1920.

1891 General Electric
1896 Quaker Oats opened as The American Cereal Company
1912 De Laval
1920 Westclox
1928 Outboard Marine
1942 Fisher Gauge
1964 Johnson & Johnson.

....

Peterborough, like many Ontario towns did quite well for itself and grew from the 1890s until the 1970s. It had jobs and its people had kids. And the kids needed schools.

Schools had two advantages. They educated the kids, making them more useful and they kept the kids off the streets, a problem when there was a large and growing population and conscription was not a preferred course of action. So school careers were extended, from Grade 10, to Grade 12 to Grade 13. Then more universities were built, like Trent, but university didn't appeal to all and there was a need for more mechanical types and trades people. So Colleges of Applied Arts and Technology, modeled after the Mechanics Institutes were built.

Generally, those of us that went on to university opted to go to schools not in our towns. We expected to live on campus in residence at least for the first year or two. before joining up with some mates, or a girl friend and renting a local condo. Those that went to the Colleges generally stayed at home with their parents until they completed their time and got a good job in town or at the auto plants in Oshawa.

...


The point being that universities provided housing for their students. There was little stress on the local housing market. Colleges provided no housing for students but the students generally lived in their parents' home. There was little stress on the local housing market.

Now, it appears that in addition to some of those colleges, absent any on campus accommodation, have been given degree granting status and have begun attracting people from out of town, out of province and out of country. They have no place to stay. And apparently a lot of the technical colleges are accepting international students, again, with no on campus accommodation.

...

I am guessing the genesis of the problem is that after the baby boom bulge there were too many colleges and universities with too many teachers facing unemployment so seats had to be filled. Fair enough.

I'll further speculate that as the factories closed down and my baby boomer mates scattered across North America in search of jobs and their parents died that there were sufficient local houses to accommodate the influx of students. Still fair enough.

But, as often happens, somewhere along the way, the focus shifted from filling the seats to keep the doors open to making a profit to pay salaries for teachers and support staff. Absent factory jobs those university and college jobs were the only jobs in town, the only paychecks.

At the same time the people that had come to fill those seats decided, that they liked the country and wanted to stay. And if they could afford to pay to go to a community technical college in Canada then they could afford to pay over the odds for housing. Simply put, they could out compete the local teachers and janitors when buying houses. They bought up all the spare capacity.

And thus our current situation....
 
Population, education and housing

My Canadian "hometown" is as good an exemplar as any.


...


The point being that universities provided housing for their students. There was little stress on the local housing market. Colleges provided no housing for students but the students generally lived in their parents' home. There was little stress on the local housing market.

Now, it appears that in addition to some of those colleges, absent any on campus accommodation, have been given degree granting status and have begun attracting people from out of town, out of province and out of country. They have no place to stay. And apparently a lot of the technical colleges are accepting international students, again, with no on campus accommodation.

...

I am guessing the genesis of the problem is that after the baby boom bulge there were too many colleges and universities with too many teachers facing unemployment so seats had to be filled. Fair enough.

I'll further speculate that as the factories closed down and my baby boomer mates scattered across North America in search of jobs and their parents died that there were sufficient local houses to accommodate the influx of students. Still fair enough.

But, as often happens, somewhere along the way, the focus shifted from filling the seats to keep the doors open to making a profit to pay salaries for teachers and support staff. Absent factory jobs those university and college jobs were the only jobs in town, the only paychecks.

At the same time the people that had come to fill those seats decided, that they liked the country and wanted to stay. And if they could afford to pay to go to a community technical college in Canada then they could afford to pay over the odds for housing. Simply put, they could out compete the local teachers and janitors when buying houses. They bought up all the spare capacity.

And thus our current situation....
U of T when I attended back in the 60's only had I am guessing 10,000 students spread around 3 campuses. Now they have upwards of 70 or so I have heard. Mac is the same, expanding from a few thousand to 10's of thousands. They no longer provide residences for all first year students that policy went out the window when they went international. Schools have become a big buck industry that requires a lot of housing but the schools aren't required to supply it. I don't think they ever were. Residences were an historical concept that disappeared with schools going from religious and cultural institutions to degree factories. But they are a factor that has never been included in the housing and immigration plans. They didn't have to be until we took the controls off and doubled and tripled our intake. At least around Niagara, temp. farm workers are supplied with accommodation: it is mandated because they are temporary. Perhaps the same rules should be applied to academics as well because they too are temps.
 
Extension of that thought process- assuming you're having mature collaborative discussions about these things, and have been carrying the expenses without their help- why charge any rent outside of the direct marginal increase that their presence is causing vice having their "rent" be diverted into getting ahead?
When I say "Rent" I truly mean help with what you can. If you have means, help the collective.

No way in hell would I be undercutting their ability to build their finances.
 
When I say "Rent" I truly mean help with what you can. If you have means, help the collective.

No way in hell would I be undercutting their ability to build their finances.
Your cricket/ baseball analogy really resonated with me.

When I think of the wealthier families amongst my peers (I'm a 92) in the area (rural Southern Ontario) developers, construction/trades families, successful business owners, large scale farmers, and many that cross boarders
A- the mostly did a great job instilling strong work ethics
B- they laugh at the "necessity" of going it alone to instill such a work ethic/ "learn the value of a dollar", and instead make efficient use of capital to get the whole family ahead, and keep them moving that way

Holdco's for properties that see siblings move through them at different life stages, partnering on small scale developments, leveraging family assets, not just co-signing but contributing to loans etc etc.

Cricket vs baseball indeed.

The average family might not have the means to help each other as painlessly- but they can choose to play the game within their means. Garden suites, multigenerational homes, house/condo swaps to right size with the familyetc.
 
Your cricket/ baseball analogy really resonated with me.

When I think of the wealthier families amongst my peers (I'm a 92) in the area (rural Southern Ontario) developers, construction/trades families, successful business owners, large scale farmers, and many that cross boarders
A- the mostly did a great job instilling strong work ethics
B- they laugh at the "necessity" of going it alone to instill such a work ethic/ "learn the value of a dollar", and instead make efficient use of capital to get the whole family ahead, and keep them moving that way

Holdco's for properties that see siblings move through them at different life stages, partnering on small scale developments, leveraging family assets, not just co-signing but contributing to loans etc etc.

Cricket vs baseball indeed.

The average family might not have the means to help each other as painlessly- but they can choose to play the game within their means. Garden suites, multigenerational homes, house/condo swaps to right size with the familyetc.
The notion comes easier to farm families than factory families.

Farm families understand property differently than people who grow up in rowhouses and tenements.
 
The notion comes easier to farm families than factory families.

Farm families understand property differently than people who grow up in rowhouses and tenements.
Amusing. One of the NDP's pet peeves in BC is monster homes built on lands in the ALR (Agricultural Land Reserve), which often end up housing rather large "farm families". I've tried pointing out to NDP acquaintances that having the work force live on the property is more environmentally friendly than commuting.

The usual answer amounts to, "These go to 11".
 
March 8, 2024

CTV News

These Canadian cities are selling property for as low as $1 to get you to move there​


Cochrane, Ont.​

Brandon, Man.​

Saskatchewan​

Reston, Man.​

Pipestone, Man.​

Mundare, Alta.​

Cape Breton Island, N.S.​

McAdam, N.B.​

And others,

There are people in Toronto renting multiple beds for $700 in a one or two bedroom apartment. They use curtains to separate the beds.

A condo for your car in Toronto.

Starting from the low $400,000

ToyBx is a revolutionary multi-use industrial condominium complex curated for your personal car
 
Many of the current problems we are seeing with younger people moving out is not due to their lack of desire or "failure to launch"; its that the game has changed significantly from generations prior to the point that you cannot play cricket and wonder why kids are losing at baseball.
Over-protective parenting has been going on for at least 30 years. Fewer opportunities to learn to adapt to stress in childhood produces less resilient adults. "No pain, no gain" applies as much to mental and emotional development as it does to physical.
 
At $1.3M, this 3+2 in the Lawrence-VicPark area isn’t bad value…and much bigger than that semi by Davenport.

Might have something to do with location.

C02 vs E04

Yorkville vs Scarborough

March 18, 2024.



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