CSS Troops - Less "Deserving"?

[Roy Harding]

Well here is a good topic on the said subject, CFPSA civilian pers are being awarded the SWASM along with TAV'S who were there for Roto 2 Aug - Feb 06 aka TFK 03-06 Now myself serving in afghanistan at this time believe I also have the right to be awarded the medal even thou the powers that be said we were going to get it....  Meanwhile just like the army HURRY UP AND WAIT...... I am a Support trade who was out in the FOB's and also a major part of the OP plus being on many of the convoys I was put in harms way.... I was also part of a fire fight now you tell me I do not deserve this medal..... LOOK AT PAST TOURS lets see Yugo you would get the former yugo medal and the peace keepers medal Now the moment of truth is it not armed conflict that my roto was part of was my roto not the hardest hit....... Get your facts straight

Your profile doesn't illuminate much, and your post illuminates even less.

Can you present your thoughts in a clear manner - such that others may be able to follow your logic?

 

[fse soldier]

Well yes I currently have the GCS, and during our tour we were promised the SWASM, anyone who was on the tour knows that.  And I am guessing the Combat badge is not coming out but meha

 

[armyvern]

Well yes I currently have the GCS, and during our tour we were promised the SWASM, anyone who was on the tour knows that.  And I am guessing the Combat badge is not coming out but meha

Don't presume to know too much.

Dude, your sit is not unlike that of the Apollo Roto II pers (who got the SWASM) who did 6 months with Op Apollo, and then were extended for the TAT and Roto Zero of Op Athena (some for up to 4 months on that tour as well). They didn't get the GCS or GCM although the boys that came and went on the TAT did ... and still they were there in theatre the whole time (some of them even deploying to another tour of the Congo during that 9-10 month period) because they had already had their deployment recognized with the SWASM.

It's just the way it is. You can NOT compare that to the gimme of the CPSM (a Canadian recognition BTW), Bosnia et al were NATO recognitions or UN recognitions as the case may be.

 

[Franko]

Well here is a good topic on the said subject, CFPSA civilian pers are being awarded the SWASM along with TAV'S who were there for Roto 2 Aug - Feb 06 aka TFK 03-06 Now myself serving in afghanistan at this time believe I also have the right to be awarded the medal even thou the powers that be said we were going to get it....  Meanwhile just like the army HURRY UP AND WAIT...... I am a Support trade who was out in the FOB's and also a major part of the OP plus being on many of the convoys I was put in harms way.... I was also part of a fire fight now you tell me I do not deserve this medal..... LOOK AT PAST TOURS lets see Yugo you would get the former yugo medal and the peace keepers medal Now the moment of truth is it not armed conflict that my roto was part of was my roto not the hardest hit....... Get your facts straight

Ummm... there are a few glaring problems with your post.

Roto 4 Athena/ 0 Archer (August 05 to March 06) were authorized to get the SWASM as well as the GCS. This was due to the fact that we changed mandates and operations in mid tour. TAVs were only allocated one medal, primarily the SWASM due to them coming on ground during the move. The CFPSA members were only given the GSM IIRC.

If you haven't received your SWASM bring it up through your CoC and get it sorted out. 2 years is too long of a time to not be awarded a medal.

Now onto another point.....

Part of a fire fight? So you're telling me that you dismounted and engaged? Bullshite. No one during the road moves between Kabul and KAF dismounted, period.

There was an ambush that happened just outside Gazny and the convoy pushed through without a shot being returned.

Now which FOB exactly were you in? Gazny or Lagman because those were the only two used by us during that tour.

 

[fse soldier]

Yes I see your point as to which the ppl from Roto 0 got there swasm and general campaign star due to the fact the made there move to KAF. Now let's get one thing straight PBW TFK 03-06 feb thru Aug 06 does that make sense to you now...  Where every soldier no matter what trade was put out on the front-line for the big push. Due to the fact there a soldier first..... And I am sure I stated what roto I was on now call bullshit on that..................... And further more I am talking about CFPSA and TAV pers who where on the same damn tour I was on recieving there GCS and SWASM....

 

[Franko]

Yes I see your point as to which the ppl from Roto 0 got there swasm and general campaign star due to the fact the made there move to KAF. Now let's get one thing straight PBW TFK 03-06 feb thru Aug 06 does that make sense to you now...  Where every soldier no matter what trade was put out on the front-line for the big push. Due to the fact there a soldier first..... And I am sure I stated what roto I was on now call bullshit on that..................... And further more I am talking about CFPSA and TAV pers who where on the same damn tour I was on recieving there GCS and SWASM....

Now that you've sorted out what you've posted......you put down the wrong dates in your original post, hence me calling it bullshite. See below....

Well here is a good topic on the said subject, CFPSA civilian pers are being awarded the SWASM along with TAV'S who were there for Roto 2 Aug - Feb 06 aka TFK 03-06 Now myself serving in afghanistan at this time believe I also have the right to be awarded the medal even thou the powers that be said we were going to get it....  Meanwhile just like the army HURRY UP AND WAIT...... I am a Support trade who was out in the FOB's and also a major part of the OP plus being on many of the convoys I was put in harms way.... I was also part of a fire fight now you tell me I do not deserve this medal..... LOOK AT PAST TOURS lets see Yugo you would get the former yugo medal and the peace keepers medal Now the moment of truth is it not armed conflict that my roto was part of was my roto not the hardest hit....... Get your facts straight

Now onto you not getting your SWASM....go through your CoC and get the memos flying.

I didn't think that CFPSA were eligible to get the GCS, only the GSM due to the fact that they aren't allowed outside the wire of KAF.

Regards

 

[CorporalMajor]

My two cents:

To me being a deserving soldier isn't about what trade you're in, how much action you've seen, how fit you are or even what training you've been put through.  It is entirely about how much effort and initiative you put forth, your constant will to learn and listen and improve, and where your mind is in general.  Approaching situations like an adult.  Working with others and not against them.  Jumping apon any opportunity possible to hone your skills. And of course it's about the same theories beaten into all of us during SQ.  Duty, Honor, Integrity, DISCIPLINE.

I've seen people of all trades in action.  I've met some pretty worthless CBT Arms types who are in good shape and have even reached MCpl, but are either very lazy or otherwise borderline-retarded.  Example being, me and a peer lifted upwards of 50 sandbags back and forth while a bunch of Inf NCOs sat around laughing with their thumbs up their rear and literally doing NOTHING to help us until I pleaded for it - no joke.

I've seen Maintainers, RMS and Sup Techs who FAIL to even drive themselves to any acceptable standard, or who treat the trade as if it's a 9 to 5 and dont see how important it can be to the person you've working for when you take the extra mile to help them or otherwise do your job that much better.  And I have met very good CSS troops who weren't even remusters from CBT Arms but could keep up with them in more ways than one.  Would you beleive that the best candidate on SQ was a VTech when it was overwhelmingly CBT arms candidates?  Of course, there's many good CBT Arms types as well, and those four trades deserve respect for the training they're put through and the dangers thrown at them.

It's in anyone's potential to be a terrific solider, and it's as simple as this - you get what you put in.  So, granted, CSS troops don't get the chance as often to hone their skills like some others do.  The only way to work against this is in the meantime, show up for as much field exes and weapons exes as you can, and make it clear to your COC that you take your green undershirt that seriously.  That's what I do, and it helps.  I do think we should put more focus on solidering in a lot of trades, especially mine, because to me honing marksmaship is more important than standing at your bed heels-together every morning and being expected to care how your thsirts are folded or whether your socks are happy  : and somehow I wound up doing more of the latter than anything even remotely soldier related... but such is life, and we gotta work with what we have. 

At the end of the day, what you rather have in charge of you -
A) a guy who  isn't in super shape and doesn't work a very 'hardcore' trade but is intelligent, mature, disciplined, works hard and knows a thing or two about organizational skills and a soldier's ethos OR
B) your stereotypical rambo-wannabe who is near olympic, has para wings and all but lacks what the former has inspades.

It's not all about guts and muscle.  And none ofthe above even remotely depends on your MOC at all.

 

[X-mo-1979]

I've seen people of all trades in action.  I've met some pretty worthless CBT Arms types who are in good shape and have even reached MCpl, but are either very lazy or otherwise borderline-retarded.  Example being, me and a peer lifted upwards of 50 sandbags back and forth while a bunch of Inf NCOs sat around laughing with their thumbs up their rear and literally doing NOTHING to help us until I pleaded for it - no joke.

What were they doing prior?Didi they just finish a huge task while you were doing paperwork in a mod tent somewhere?There are two sides to every story remember.And honestly I have ZERO issue telling my troops to stand down and relax coming back into camp.And anyone that has maybe sat around for the past week and is now asking for their help is proably not going to get it.

Two sides each story....and 50 sand bags....come ON!

 

[medaid]

Two sides each story....and 50 sand bags....come ON!

Heaven forbid... that's... that's 25 sandbags each! Oh my...

 

[Timmy!]

CorporalMajor~ I believe you need some more TI before you pipe up again. I"ve done the PRes deal as a MSE Op and now as Reg Force. I"ll work in many places and have seen many faces. Give yourself sometime before you thump your chest. You won't go far on this site. Your profile gives me a feeling your just a tad green. Not meaning to sound like an arse,  but I have to jump on the band wagon, there are two sides to the story. I strongly agree with X-mo-1979.

Regards,
Schultz

 

[Timmy!]

Ah yes, because we all know that CSS troops spend all their time *maybe* (just to cover your rear, eh) sitting around doing nothing all week and cbt arms guys spend all their time 'doing hard tasks'.

Just remember, while your battalion is out on sports day complaining about the lazy supply guys (for example) who never get you what you want, they're still busy working in stores while you're playing murderball and counting the time until happy hour when you can all leave. Oh wait, I'm just an OCdt...I haven't seen anything so stay in my lane...right?

God, I HATE ignorant comments like that from people who, from their profile, should know better then to make assinie comments like that.  

I'm sorry OCdt if you feel upset over this assinie ... I do know this X-Mo feller very well. And I can support his view. Yes his statement was a tad "ignorant" taste, but some folks just need an eye opener, in my view/opinion.

I can honestly say I don't know your background. So for me to reply about the "so stay in my lane" would be pushing it.

Regards,
Fellow logistician...
Schultz

 

[X-mo-1979]

Ah yes, because we all know that CSS troops spend all their time *maybe* (just to cover your rear, eh) sitting around doing nothing all week and cbt arms guys spend all their time 'doing hard tasks'.

Just remember, while your battalion is out on sports day complaining about the lazy supply guys (for example) who never get you what you want, they're still busy working in stores while you're playing murderball and counting the time until happy hour when you can all leave. Oh wait, I'm just an OCdt...I haven't seen anything so stay in my lane...right?

God, I HATE ignorant comments like that from people who, from their profile, should know better then to make asinine comments like that.  

When did I say that's all CSS troops' did?
When someone complains when they are lifting a whole 50 sand bags,It tends to make me believe their previous tasking was far from labour intensive.

As for asinine comments maybe you should limit yours while making an assumption about battalion sports days/happy hour.Were usually too busy trying to injure one another playing hockey to complain about anyone. ;D

My comments were made to demonstrate,when you see those guys sitting around watching maybe think of why they are.Their proably exhausted.

Work on your writing skills,as your poor attempt to put words in my mouth are obvious.

I have worked with Sgt Schultz in previous employment,and he should know I have a HUGE respect for CSS troops.However I will NEVER volunteer my guys for menial labour when it is obvious the others have not been driven as hard as my guys.
If its for a common goal,for sure.If it's 50 sand bags...

Heaven forbid... that's... that's 25 sandbags each! Oh my...

 

[X-mo-1979]

And just to add.If my guys have been sitting around not doing anything and were watching you,even though it's only a one man job I'm POSITIVE they would be helping.As they would know I would be around shortly to ask why the heck their making k-9 love.

I have helped load HLVW's full of rations.I've carried bag's of mail around base for the postal clerks.I've also came in off patrol sat in front of my tent and watched other troop's do the same.Any section,troop,will most likely give you assistance if their work load is light.But don't expect it at all times.

I would think this CSS Combat thing would be moot when the HLVW's show up with your supplies.

A good read on the dedication of CSS troops is the book "15 days" in support of combat missions.A Lav commander complained that the CSS guys were driving all over the road.When the driver were approached they found it was something like 36hr since they had stopped to sleep.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The best NCOs I've seen are the ones that take their shirts off and get their hands dirty with the troops. I've met a ton of them in 3RCR and some I worked with in 2PPCLI, I'm sure other BTNs have them too.

Same goes with officers. Platoon and company commanders working along side their men.  My regiments old CO, an ex airborne regiment type helped in the digging with a russian trench system-he was probably the toughest hardest working body there too.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Ah yes, because we all know that CSS troops spend all their time *maybe* (just to cover your rear, eh) sitting around doing nothing all week and cbt arms guys spend all their time 'doing hard tasks'.

Just remember, while your battalion is out on sports day complaining about the lazy supply guys (for example) who never get you what you want, they're still busy working in stores while you're playing murderball and counting the time until happy hour when you can all leave. Oh wait, I'm just an OCdt...I haven't seen anything so stay in my lane...right?

God, I HATE ignorant comments like that from people who, from their profile, should know better then to make assinie comments like that. 

I was in the arms my entire career.  Plenty of times I had to work for the bin rats, cooks, and sundry other mechs and techs.  All good, all part of the team effort.  I NEVER had a bin rat, cook, or any other loggie come sprinting down to the Armoured Engineer bay to help me bust leo track or change a road wheel.  In fact, it was a never ending source of amusement to the Q continuum to sit on their picnic bench and watch us hammer track pads all day.

 

[George Wallace]

OK

I've locked this for everyone's good.

Piper

Just a point.  Bin Rats and such do have their "Regimental/Battalion Sports Days".  Vern has posted about the "Log Spiel", in competition with the Armour Corps "EX Ironsides", but neither can hold a candle to the "Pig Spiel".  There are no units or organizations in the CF that are without some form of Sport or other event to tie up a day or a week of unit "fun".  Perhaps you didn't intend that connotation when you posted, but it came across as the Bin Rats work 24 and 7, 365/365/365/366 a year and never sleep.  That is a false notion.

Any way, this is a touchy subject which as you can see, can easily raise a lot of hackles when someone without experience feels it is time to voice an ill-informed opinion.  (CorporalMajor, I am looking at you.)