Current Dress Regs

[dimsum]

Our yearly dinner, where spouses are invited, are either CFs, Mess Dress or Suit. I always just rent a tux or equivalent. I don’t wear our awful RCAF bus driver uniforms if I don’t have to.

Why not wear a suit then? Buy a suit and wear it to multiple events.

 

[dimsum]

Seems like a handy form of wanker self identification though. I would be happy to never to go to a mess dinner event ever again in my life though, so probably biased now. The last one I went to was all the pretension with none of the fun.

Sounds like any mess dinner higher than a unit/ship/sqn one.

But getting back on topic, maybe it’s to fool people into thinking you have rank/influence until they take a look down your sleeve and say “….oh. Never mind.”

 

[dangerboy]

I thought it was now inappropriate (not to say "unlawful) to wear mess dress as a retired officer except with the permission of the Commanding Officer of a command (RCN, CA, RCAF or SOFCOM)?

For instance, last year we were all informed that a blanket authorization had been granted by CRCN to all members of the Naval reserve wishing to attend formal functions for the Naval reserve 100th anniversary to wear Mess Dress.

They have changed the regulations. The dress instructions now say:

1. Mess Dress (No 2). The wear of Mess Dress (No 2 or 2A only) after release is permitted. Former members are to wear the style of Mess Dress authorized by their Branch/Corps or Regiment at the time of their release, this includes their rank, decorations, skill insignia which they were entitled to. To distinguish retired members from serving members, retired members are to wear the distinctive CAF Retiree Insignia on the lower left sleeve of the mess dress jacket 1.5 cm above the cuff, or any embellishment including PO1/WO, CPO2/MWO or CPO1/CWO rank insignia.

Dress instructions | Chapter 2 Policy and appearance - Canada.ca

 

[Quirky]

Why not wear a suit then? Buy a suit and wear it to multiple events.

Nah.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Sounds like you've been going to the wrong mess dinners... The last few I've been to have been a lot of fun.

I can see why some prefer to wear a tux, but I can also see why some want to be able to wear their mess dress. If you want to put the military in your past, why be an associate member of the mess? There are lots of other social clubs you can join., some even have their own uniforms and accoutrements.

I think it's some of the pretensions and weird rituals that I object to (like having to ask permission to go to the bathroom like a school kid), but yeah, the last one I went to in the Ottawa city hall atrium was definitely not fun. Maybe a smaller mess dinner like a unit one or something would be different, as the last one I went to that I enjoyed was with the ship's wardroom right before deployment with about 25 people and was a blast. Navy ones are also weird, in that they keep doing them on Thursday and expect you to go, but don't think of giving a short day. Small thing, but annoys me as it's unecessarily petty.

Just from personal experience, but the few people I know that have or have expressed interest in wearing mess kit after retirement have all been people I didnt' like in uniform either, and their personality was their rank, so comes across more of a desperate attempt to stay relevant and have some kind of authority. If someone got the token respect due to their rank while in uniform, hard to maintain that pretence once they are retired, and people that earned the respect while in uniform will still get it regardless of what they are wearing.

I've learned a lot from retired members (some very senior ones), and still do, but their rank at retirement was more of a postmark fact when they were sharing their experiences and providing advice and mentoring. Again, maybe biased, but wearing your mess kit after you've retired has the same kind of energy as military spouses that want you to address them by their spouse's rank, and try and throw that (non-existent) weight around.

Is it an unfair generalization to assume that they are wankers for wearing a mess dress after retirement to a function? Probably. But the ones that are wankers and are wearing the retired mess dress will be that kind of bad example that overshadows others that maybe just can't be bothered to get a tux or something if their mess kit still fits. It's not like all cross fitters or vegans are unbearable, but there are unbearable cross fitters and vegans, and those are the ones you remember.

 

[Furniture]

I think it's some of the pretensions and weird rituals that I object to (like having to ask permission to go to the bathroom like a school kid), but yeah, the last one I went to in the Ottawa city hall atrium was definitely not fun. Maybe a smaller mess dinner like a unit one or something would be different, as the last one I went to that I enjoyed was with the ship's wardroom right before deployment with about 25 people and was a blast. Navy ones are also weird, in that they keep doing them on Thursday and expect you to go, but don't think of giving a short day. Small thing, but annoys me as it's unecessarily petty.

I fixed that one last mess dinner I attended by requesting blanket approval for all apart from during the gust of honour address and the toasts.

Next one I intend to announce it in the opening remarks. Traditions can change, you just need to talk to the right people.

Just from personal experience, but the few people I know that have or have expressed interest in wearing mess kit after retirement have all been people I didnt' like in uniform either, and their personality was their rank, so comes across more of a desperate attempt to stay relevant and have some kind of authority. If someone got the token respect due to their rank while in uniform, hard to maintain that pretence once they are retired, and people that earned the respect while in uniform will still get it regardless of what they are wearing.

That's fair, personal experiences definitely shape our opinions. I've also met enough of those types over the years to see where you're coming from.

 

[markppcli]

Nah.

Some people just love spending money I guess

 

[FSTO]

To navy Pete. It’s a regular announcement that nobody has to ask permission to go to the bathroom.

 

[Navy_Pete]

To navy Pete. It’s a regular announcement that nobody has to ask permission to go to the bathroom.

That's good news, I always thought that was stupid as hell. I haven't been to a mess dinner in 7 or 8 years now though, and have no real desire to break that streak, but will keep an open mind I guess if something comes up. Use to go to the trade one, and stopped when they kept doing it in city hall, but maybe now it will shift back to the combined officers mess in the NCR now that we've all consolidated into the Army mess.

 

[Quirky]

Some people just love spending money I guess

Rule #1. Don’t be poor.

 

[dimsum]

.

 

[dimsum]

Rule #1. Don’t be poor.

I don’t follow. Are you saying that just renting tuxes multiple times is better than buying one (or a suit) because you have $ to throw around?

Didn’t know the CAF paid so well all of a sudden.

 

[dapaterson]

My local formal wear location rents a tux starting at $240, sells starting at $400.

More than one use and you're money ahead to buy instead of rent.

 

[markppcli]

Rule #1. Don’t be poor.

A great way to not be poor is to avoid renting things you can buy, especially since as someone who I assume is a grown ass man a suit is one of those things you just need to have.

 

[Quirky]

A great way to not be poor is to avoid renting things you can buy, especially since as someone who I assume is a grown ass man a suit is one of those things you just need to have.

Did I strike a nerve? Relax.

 

[Kilted]

I think it's some of the pretensions and weird rituals that I object to (like having to ask permission to go to the bathroom like a school kid),

They let you ask permission to use the bathroom? We are not allowed to leave the table for any reason before the Toast to the King, which occurs after the dinner.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How does the CAF get away with creating dress regs for retired members wearing a garment bought with individual monies ?

 

[dimsum]

How does the CAF get away with creating dress regs for retired members wearing a garment bought with individual monies ?

Likely because it’s still a type of uniform, albeit bought by the member.

 

[OldSolduer]

How does the CAF get away with creating dress regs for retired members wearing a garment bought with individual monies ?

Also so whoever is attending will know who is current and who is retired.

 

[PuckChaser]

How does the CAF get away with creating dress regs for retired members wearing a garment bought with individual monies ?

Because it's a Crown design and you're wearing Crown IP and also has a nexus to Sect 419 of CCC. A retiree badge on the arm seems like a simple, low cost method for an individual to continue to wear the uniform they bought (until the wine and beers kick in).