Current Dress Regs

[Halifax Tar]

Because it's a Crown design and you're wearing Crown IP and also has a nexus to Sect 419 of CCC. A retiree badge on the arm seems like a simple, low cost method for an individual to continue to wear the uniform they bought (until the wine and beers kick in).

Ya I don't don't take issue with the badge per say. But they can't really enforce it. What is the recourse is retired member X doesn't put the badge on and still wears their mess dress ?

 

[PuckChaser]

Ya I don't don't take issue with the badge per say. But they can't really enforce it. What is the recourse is retired member X doesn't put the badge on and still wears their mess dress ?

For the vast majority, probably nothing. For the GOFO that tries to big dog a subbie by neglecting to mention they're retired, CCC419.

Rules aren't made for us normies. It's for the 1% that'll wear mess kit and try to pull retired rank on young troops at some sort of event.

 

[RangerRay]

I could tell who was retired because they were old AF.

 

[markppcli]

Ya I don't don't take issue with the badge per se. But they can't really enforce it. What is the recourse is retired member X doesn't put the badge on and still wears their mess dress ?

“Unfortunately you’ll have to leave”

 

[Eaglelord17]

They let you ask permission to use the bathroom? We are not allowed to leave the table for any reason before the Toast to the King, which occurs after the dinner.

Yeah been to a few like that, generally earlier in my career. Thankfully that tradition from what I have seen seems to be on the way out.

I remember having to go and getting up to go (I wasn’t even the first, rather the 10th to go), and having the RSM barge in after me letting loose in the washroom. I think his comment was something along the lines of it bring rude to leave to go to the washroom, which my response was basically its rude to make your guests piss themselves for no good reason.

Not to mention it’s a great way to make people hate that socializing event thereby killing the whole thing long term.

 

[Halifax Tar]

@markppcli

“Unfortunately you’ll have to leave”

Which is great when its a CAF function; but mess dinners aren't the only places people wear these things.

 

[Remius]

Which is great when its a CAF function; but mess dinners aren't the only places people wear these things.

The rules are pretty clear on when mess kit can be worn. Fancy parties are not actually authorized.

To your point though, people do wear it at places they shouldn’t.

 

[Rifleman62]

...having the RSM barge in after me letting loose in the washroom....

You mean he took the opportunity to take a pee himself?

 

[Halifax Tar]

@Remius

The rules are pretty clear on when mess kit can be worn. Fancy parties are not actually authorized.

To your point though, people do wear it at places they shouldn’t.

So are we going to go to Joe and Jane Doe's wedding and laying charges because uncle Buck wore mess dress with without the retired badge ?

Do we think retired members care much about when and where we say they can wear some clothing they bought ?

 

[KevinB]

Yeah been to a few like that, generally earlier in my career. Thankfully that tradition from what I have seen seems to be on the way out.

I remember having to go and getting up to go (I wasn’t even the first, rather the 10th to go), and having the RSM barge in after me letting loose in the washroom. I think his comment was something along the lines of it bring rude to leave to go to the washroom, which my response was basically its rude to make your guests piss themselves for no good reason.

Not to mention it’s a great way to make people hate that socializing event thereby killing the whole thing long term.

Keep in mind the entire intent of the origin of not getting up to go to the bathroom was to keep young officer’s from drinking to much and making an ass of themselves, and potentially damaging careers or embarrassing parents, mentors etc.

However it seems like most concepts that the intent was lost to history - as folks would simply pee in empty wine bottles under the table (or some very desperate ones an empty water glass).

 

[Remius]

So are we going to go to Joe and Jane Doe's wedding and laying charges because uncle Buck wore mess dress with without the retired badge ?

If anyone is seriously asking that they need a bit of a head check on priorities.

Do we think retired members care much about when and where we say they can wear some clothing they bought ?

Of course not.

I think the whole badge thing is ridiculous. Just wear a nice suit or tux as far as I’m concerned.

I find shame works just fine. Had an interesting conversation with an MWO who wore his mess kit on a cruise once…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Keep in mind the entire intent of the origin of not getting up to go to the bathroom was to keep young officer’s from drinking to much and making an ass of themselves, and potentially damaging careers or embarrassing parents, mentors etc.

However it seems like most concepts that the intent was lost to history - as folks would simply pee in empty wine bottles under the table (or some very desperate ones an empty water glass).

More reasons to love wearing a kilt!

 

[Remius]

Keep in mind the entire intent of the origin of not getting up to go to the bathroom was to keep young officer’s from drinking to much and making an ass of themselves, and potentially damaging careers or embarrassing parents, mentors etc.

However it seems like most concepts that the intent was lost to history - as folks would simply pee in empty wine bottles under the table (or some very desperate ones an empty water glass).

Pretty much. It’s an old tradition that needs evolving as far as I am concerned.

One thing we will do mostly for laughs is boo anyone that gets up. Sometimes a chair gets removed. Most of it is in good fun. Event depending though.

 

[Quirky]

Keep in mind the entire intent of the origin of not getting up to go to the bathroom was to keep young officer’s from drinking to much and making an ass of themselves, and potentially damaging careers or embarrassing parents, mentors etc.

Choices have consequences. If people can't manage themselves with alcohol in work social settings, that's on them. CAF does a very poor job in holding people accountable for their actions in social situations, be it mess dinners, messes etc. No one ever gets fired.

 

[QV]

Choices have consequences. If people can't manage themselves with alcohol in work social settings, that's on them. CAF does a very poor job in holding people accountable for their actions in social situations, be it mess dinners, messes etc. No one ever gets fired.

The free flow of booze is a great vetting tool. Watching people self destruct in a social setting is good way to weed out the future problems.

 

[Eaglelord17]

You mean he took the opportunity to take a pee himself?

Nope, just stormed in after me to yell at me. Left as soon as I was leaving. Quite possibly to try and make a example to prevent others from going is what I think was going on.

Keep in mind the entire intent of the origin of not getting up to go to the bathroom was to keep young officer’s from drinking to much and making an ass of themselves, and potentially damaging careers or embarrassing parents, mentors etc.

However it seems like most concepts that the intent was lost to history - as folks would simply pee in empty wine bottles under the table (or some very desperate ones an empty water glass).

Yeah, the historical disgusting ‘solutions’ are much worse than just going to the washroom. Especially in todays mixed military.

How it isn’t considered rude to piss at the dinner table, yet is rude to head to the washroom is beyond me.

It also doesn’t help when you don’t explain to people how it goes before hand so they can limit themselves. Oh well fortunately it is on the way out (along with most other traditions for good or bad).

 

[Quirky]

The free flow of booze is a great vetting tool. Watching people self destruct in a social setting is good way to weed out the future problems.

The craziest stuff I've seen were from people who were essentially on their way out the door, and were functional alcoholics.

 

[medicineman]

Choices have consequences. If people can't manage themselves with alcohol in work social settings, that's on them. CAF does a very poor job in holding people accountable for their actions in social situations, be it mess dinners, messes etc. No one ever gets fired.

Depends on where you work and who you work for - due to some people that couldn't handle their booze in the mess, I and a large number of other NCO's didn't have to do BOS for an entire year in a battalion I was in...in my younger days, back when getting drunk was not only the norm, but encouraged, one of the platoon Sgt's in my company was literally "disappeared" and career stopped shortly after doing something stupid in the mess. I've used admin and recommended disciplinary measures against folks that had alcohol and drug related issues - they're there, you just have to use them. There are folks on this forum that had/have no problems playing by adult rules, but they applied/apply adult consequences...however, that doesn't happen that much anymore, as there is a general risk aversion to having to deal with the fallout of a/a number of dumb person/persons getting dumber courtesy of their frontal lobe safeties getting flipped from "S" to "R(ETARD)".

The free flow of booze is a great vetting tool. Watching people self destruct in a social setting is good way to weed out the future problems.

It is...but it can also be argued that "I was just doing what I was encouraged, maybe even ordered, to do". If you're going to imply that people must drink, whether or not they can handle their booze, you as the boss then need to be able to accept the consequences of those actions - such as people seriously injured because of unruliness, people getting a hold of vehicles and driving/causing foreseeable accidents while loaded, people doing dumb stuff because "hold my beer", etc...all of which I've either done, been involved with, seen first hand or had to deal with the results of, more times than I care to remember. It was a few of these come to Jesus moments that resulted in me looking at my own drinking habits; add to that the fact my job, as a rule, has me seeing end results of people that can't/shouldn't drink or use other intoxicants on a daily, sometimes hourly, basis.

Bright side, a good boss won't let that happen, reins in those that are a potential problem before they go off the rails and uses the administrative and disciplinary measures at their disposal. Gone are the days of the PER box asking "Does this member's drinking affect their work performance?".

My $0.02 pre-tax FWIW.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Pretty much. It’s an old tradition that needs evolving as far as I am concerned.

One thing we will do mostly for laughs is boo anyone that gets up. Sometimes a chair gets removed. Most of it is in good fun. Event depending though.

I saw that happen to a civilian who was attending a mess dinner and wasn't aware of the 'culture'.

It was a Chief of Police. They never returned. Oops

 

[Furniture]

One thing we will do mostly for laughs is boo anyone that gets up. Sometimes a chair gets removed. Most of it is in good fun. Event depending though.

We shut that down at our dinners. Who knows if someone has a medical issue or social anxiety? Why make someone uncomfortable because they need to perform a routine bodily function?

I never had a problem with singing or any other ritual embarrassment to go to the washroom, but I also know that I'm a lot more comfortable in front of a crowd than the average person.