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Daily wear - Work Dress vs Operational dress [Split from Sleeves up]

FSTO

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Ditch said:
Sleeves rolled up or down, members choice while in office setting.  This was released decades ago via some sort of direction (official or otherwise).  Sleeves don’t roll up on zoom suits, so I guess I’m just happy with the two way zipper.

Or you just wear No 3's in the office setting and there is no rolled sleeves issue (during the summer).
 

cld617

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FSTO said:
Or you just wear No 3's in the office setting and there is no rolled sleeves issue (during the summer).

If dress of the day is service dress, why should mbrs be required to wear something above that to be comfortable? Roadblock for the sake of it.
 

FSTO

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gcclarke said:
More to the point, if dress of the day is service dress, members aren't actually authorized to wear something "above" that to be comfortable. That's the point of dress of the day, isn't it? To mandate what the member is required to be wearing on a daily basis?

Anyways, this whole entire "no rolling sleeves at all" thing to me seems to be a decision that is just emblematic of what I consider to be the worst traits of the Army. Valuing appearances and conformity over everything else, and not giving a hoot about the comfort or well being of the people under your command. I just feel sorry for the Air Force folks who got wrapped up in this crap just because the rules for wearing CADPAT got delegated down to the commander of the Army.

Pretty happy that the new Navy Combat Dress has the ability to roll the sleeves up!  ;D
 

daftandbarmy

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If we are smoking dope, like the Taliban, and wearing beards, like the Taliban, why don't we adopt their national dress during the summer? ;)
 

Remius

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The CAF relaxes grooming standards, allows pony tails, gets with the times about recreational drug use and boots but somehow the CoC gets branded as not caring about their people.

In the PS there are literally thousands of people who haven't had an accurate pay for five years, whose financial futures are ruined and we whine about beard length and sleeves.  FML. 
 

Remius

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SupersonicMax said:
Treat people like adults and they will behave like adults.  Treat them like kids and you got yourself a pre-K daycare...

The CAF is probably the largest professional organisation that holds hands as much as they do with their pers.  Many times when you try to treat them as adults they still want their hands held. 
 

dimsum

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Remius said:
The CAF military is probably the largest professional organisation that holds hands as much as they do with their pers. 

We're up there, but not at US military standards of hand-holding.  This is the organization that finally dropped the requirement to wear reflective belts while on PT in daylight this year.

https://www.stripes.com/news/army/army-secretary-pt-belts-aren-t-needed-in-daylight-1.564178
 

mariomike

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Dimsum said:
This is the organization that finally dropped the requirement to wear reflective belts while on PT in daylight this year.

Some funny stories about reflective belts.  :)
https://www.duffelblog.com/tag/reflective-belt/


 

dimsum

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mariomike said:
Some funny stories about reflective belts.  :)
https://www.duffelblog.com/tag/reflective-belt/

You don't even need to quote Duffelblog.  I knew it had reached peak level ridiculousness when a) people had to wear them inside the very-well-lit gym, and b) some units had colour-coded belts for officers, SNCOs, etc and I even saw one with the rank pins on them. 

This was all in KAF or Kuwait.
 

SupersonicMax

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Remius said:
The CAF is probably the largest professional organisation that holds hands as much as they do with their pers.  Many times when you try to treat them as adults they still want their hands held.

That’s because people have been spoon-fed and their hands held from the time they joined.  This issue is rooted deeply in our culture and it needs to change.
 

OldSolduer

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SupersonicMax said:
Treat people like adults and they will behave like adults.  Treat them like kids and you got yourself a pre-K daycare...

So the CoC needs to inform their people about why this and many other decisions have been taken. IF the reasons are sound most will go with the program.

BUT there will always be the barracks room lawyers.....
 

mariomike

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SupersonicMax said:
That’s because people have been spoon-fed and their hands held from the time they joined. 

Judging from some of the Recruiting threads, maybe even before they joined.
 

OldSolduer

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mariomike said:
Judging from some of the Recruiting threads, maybe even before they joined.

As far as I know the standards have been written so a person of average intelligence can reasonably comprehend and comply.
 

dapaterson

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If you work day to day in Canada in an office setting, then there's no reason to wear the most costly uniform (operational dress) day to day, other than the laziness of members who don't want to iron their clothes or polish their shoes.

 

Eye In The Sky

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gcclarke said:
Eh, you're supposed to be. As per the dress instructions (Chapt Annex D Para 2) , specifications on how to wear CADPAT for all CAF members was devolved down to the Commander CA. Same deal for people who wear flight suits, even if they're working for an organization that doesn't fall under the RCAF, they still follow the rules laid out for flight suits by the commander of the RCAF.

There is a CADO that directs our dress in 1 Cdn Air Div, plus I have Wing and Sqn dress instructions.  I don't concern myself too much with anything coming from the Army; there's enough direction as it is.

There's lot of direction in CFP 265 that gets ignored...by all ranks, and most of those who should be setting a positive example. 

Example 1 

Example 2

I could go on with examples from our social media pages...

Dress regulations - it's a freakin' uniform.  If there was no direction on how it shall be worn, well imagine the shit-show it would be then.  There are times they will be relaxed, and times they will be (and need to be) enforced. 

The CAF is becoming a whiny bunch of spoiled kids.  I don't want to do drill and parades  :'(, I don't want to dress how I'm told  :'(, I don't want to shave my neck and cheeks  :'(.  Honest to fuckin' jesus.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Dimsum said:
I don't see what's wrong with this one?  If it's because the Sgt's CD isn't mounted properly, it's because he just got it awarded.

Take a closer look at the Sgt.

- the Command Badge is not centered properly on the breast pocket, IAW 265 (this one is common in the RCAF);
- the tie knot is the shits

NCOs will set the example for subordinates;  sometimes it's a bad example...

CFP 265, Ch 3, Sect 5, Para 4.
Command Badges. Subject to the approval of each commander, metal and enamel commandbadges of approved design shall be worn on the service dress jacket as indicated in Figure 3-5-1.

It's not the fact that command badges, as an example,  are wrong that concerns me, honestly; it's more the mentality of "so what?" that does. 
 

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BDTyre

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Eagle Eye View said:
Gotcha, thanks for the info EITS. So depending on which version Caspar shirt they have, the member can choose to roll their sleeves or not. Kinda using common sense.

Apparently it dictates what belt they can wear too...

CADO Vol 1, 1-006 OPERATIONAL DRESS  (latest version)

CANADIAN PATTERN LIGHT WEIGHT COMBAT CLOTHING

General

13. LWCC shall be worn as follows:

e. the pants shall be secured with an approved belt;


ENHANCED COMBAT UNIFORM

General

17. ECU clothing shall be worn as indicated:

f. the pants shall be secured with a belt; and


 

Throwaway987

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The problem with DEU for office wear is that the shoes require constant upkeep. I’ve never worn shoes that had a layer of polish that could be damaged through normal wear before. Do people normally have a separate set of oxfords for parades and another set of non-polished shoes for routine office wear?

It feels like a massive systemic failure to buy shoes that require so much institutional manpower to maintain. Could we just make the patent ones standard and save a lot of man hours?
 
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