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Cdn Blackshirt said:
Can't speak to the CoC. The maintenance of the unit is a dnd line item. The cost of operational deployments is supposed to be financed through requisition from the treasury board.
Deploying the DART to Asia
- Thread starter Lethbridge U
- Start date
Can't speak to the CoC. The maintenance of the unit is a dnd line item. The cost of operational deployments is supposed to be financed through requisition from the treasury board.
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sapper332 said:
Nice work Tony....
Radop
Full Member
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George Wallace said:
Sri Lanka wants us I guess. 4 water treatment plants can produce a lot of water and we can make a small difference. Togeather with other countries small contributions, we will make a "world" of difference.
"UNLESS we pony up for some C17's and a C5 - DART is a pipedream.
I was part of it when it first got dreamed up - it seem to keep getting bigger and bigger but no clearer focus."
I as well was called in on my Christmas leave to assist those signallers departing to the area. I am still on 12 hrs notice to move myself. 25 pers left to set up a CP and to provide a NRL. The problem with the DART is that it is getting bigger and bigger. It originally was suppose to fit in 4 hurcs. Now it would take 14 flights and some of the equipment cannot fit on a hurc. I don't know what the solution is but I think we need to coordinate with NGOs so that we can come up with one coordinated effort that maximizes the assistance that we can give.
R
Rushrules
Guest
Chain of Command- VCDS to CFJOG
M
my love my life
Guest
There seems to be a lot of discussion in the media as to whether Canada should have sent more than just the DART team to aid the victims of the tsunami. As well, I've read a lot of criticism about Canada taking too long to send DART. What are your views?
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Cdn Blackshirt said:
From a diplomatic perspective, the deployment of foreign troops without an invitation from the host, sovereign nation is sometimes called an "invasion" (i.e. Canada can't simply send the DART into another country just because "we feel like it" - the other country has to ask for us, unless there's already a treaty in place).
Thus, it's the responsibility for our Minister of Foreign Affairs vis-a-vis receiving the formal invitation from the other nation
(and, as you'll al remember, Pierre Pettigrew was on vacation outside of Canada when the tsunami hit ... and his eyes were shifting all over the place when he appeared on television yesterday to explain that "... the advantage of this century is that we can work from anywhere ..." and in the next breath he incorrectly quoted a public opinion poll as to the percentage of Canadians who were satisfied with the Canadian government's efforts ... proving that he was now extremely well-connected to the Liberal party spin doctors with their pulse on the polls back in Canada ...)
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I'm just curious here but are Dart members volunteers or assigned the duties?
McG
Army.ca Legend
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For the few permanent DART members, it is a posting. Most DART members are voluntold. LFC units get tasked to maintain the request pers on notice to move (this task rotates with managed readiness). Tasked units will often identify specific sub units and sub-sub units that will deploy as a whole to meet the commitment (this commitment may be rotated inside the unit).
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From NY TIMES ---- 8 Jan 05
This is a DART............
You can see the scale of effort that we have vs the US
*********************************************************
Tsunami Tests U.S. Forces' Logistics, but Gives Pentagon a Chance to Show a Human Face
By THOM SHANKER and JAMES BROOKE
ASHINGTON, Jan. 8 - The huge American relief operation in the Indian Ocean carries risks for the Pentagon but also rewards, employing combat resources at a time the armed forces are stretched thin, but putting forth an image of an American military that is as caring and efficient in saving lives as it is violent and efficient in slaying adversaries.
Senior Pentagon and military officials say the Defense Department carefully balanced its strategic needs with the imperative to open up logistical bottlenecks and begin ferrying water, food, medical supplies and shelter in one of the most challenging relief operations of the last 50 years.
The latest estimates indicate that the Pentagon's portion of the relief effort is costing about $5.6 million per day, and that the military already has spent $40 million on the mission, Defense Department officials said Friday. Total American combat assets - including ships and aircraft - now ordered into the region for tsunami relief are valued at $20 billion.
In the hours after the tsunami leveled coastal villages across the Indian Ocean, killing more than 150,000 and leaving millions displaced, the Bush administration began crunching numbers to calculate relief donations. But a very different kind of risk analysis was under way deep inside the Pentagon and at the military's Pacific Command in Hawaii, these officials said.
Senior military planners calculated in just a few hours how much combat power would have to be preserved for commanders in the Pacific to maintain a credible deterrent against North Korea, and even China, while sending relief assistance.
Senior officers said the most important discussion was with Gen. Leon J. LaPorte, the commander of American forces in South Korea.
"In this particular case, we talked about Korea in some depth," said Adm. Thomas B. Fargo, commander of all American forces in the Pacific. "We did a solid risk assessment, and I am comfortable with our posture."
Although large military commitments to Iraq and Afghanistan have stretched the American forces worldwide, Pentagon and Pacific command planners realized there was an unintended benefit, especially in the decision to move heavy bombers from home bases in the United States to Asia, within easy striking distance of North Korea. This step was taken to maintain a strong deterrent in the Pacific as American military forces flowed toward Iraq.
These changes to the traditional force posture in the region have allowed the commitment of a large military contingent to the aid mission. As of Friday, approximately 13,000 American military personnel, nearly 20 warships and about 90 aircraft were assigned to the relief effort, said Lt. Gen. Robert R. Blackman, commander of American military efforts for the relief mission.
While the military has focused on fighting wars, the relief mission showed how swiftly it can shift missions and provide, on a large scale, such mundane but lifesaving capabilities as global transportation, cargo handling, water purification and emergency medical care.
The aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln, for example, carries as much municipal infrastructure in the Indian Ocean as many American cities.
Officers and enlisted personnel involved in the mission say they are grateful for the change of pace and proud of the relief mission, which presents the world with an image of an American military saving lives of tsunami victims in countries where the United States has strong military ties, and in some where it has few.
Brig. Gen. Jan-Marc Jouas, commander of the 18th Wing at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan, the largest air base in the Pacific, said the military's relief effort symbolized the full range of the American armed services' engagement.
"It shows we are here for more than just the defense of Japan, an ally," he said. "We are here for other missions, the commitment to the defense of Korea, humanitarian missions, disaster relief."
In describing the balance struck by his Air Force assets, General Jouas said the American air wing at Kadena sent cargo transports, refueling tankers and helicopters to the Indian Ocean to take part in tsunami relief but kept ready in the Pacific region its airborne early warning jets and four dozen F-15 fighters.
Speaking at the military's relief command post set up at Utapao, Thailand, he expressed a desire that the military's efforts at tsunami relief would carry a powerful message around the world.
"I would hope that people would see the huge effort that we have put forth to mobilize almost 14,000 service men and women, the number of aircraft we have put into this," he said. "The generosity of the American government and people would countermand the perceptions they may have had."
One senior Pentagon official cautioned, however, "When you commit forces to any contingency, it takes away from your ability to commit elsewhere, especially to the fight." He added that war planners were paying special attention to the strain on the military's transport ability.
The commitment of the Abraham Lincoln carrier strike group and a second amphibious strike group led by the helicopter carrier Bonhomme Richard amounts to a significant combat ability that is, temporarily at least, unavailable to combat commanders.
"Does the effort degrade our ability to operate combat aircraft off the Lincoln? Yes," said one military planner at the Pentagon. "But could it be recaptured before the ship made it to potential crisis location? Also yes."
The American armed forces have routinely been called in for relief, rescue and pinpoint stabilization missions in places like Haiti or Liberia, or deployed over years to avert social collapse and end bloodshed in places like Bosnia or Kosovo. The current relief mission is certain to be shorter than the Balkans deployments, and is likely to do more for the military's image, both among hard-hit citizens along the Indian Ocean rim and around the globe, than other recent missions in Africa or the Caribbean.
A military axiom holds that even the best plans do not survive first contact with an enemy, and much of the Defense Department's expertise is in the ability to plan quickly, rather than in rigidly carrying out the plans themselves.
Thus, officers at the military's Pacific Command said they were able to mount the assistance effort rapidly because they already had conducted a large number of exercises in the region that had incorporated elements of disaster relief.
"Our large multinational exercise that we conduct every year in Thailand is specifically pointed toward humanitarian assistance, disaster relief and peacekeeping, and of course it brings a large number of the nations of the region together to work in this same manner," Admiral Fargo said.
"So you can't point yourself toward a specific catastrophe like this," he added, "but you can put in place the basic training, the habitual relationships and, as I pointed out, the standard operating procedures that apply to a wide range of contingencies and crises."
Thom Shanker reported from Washington for this article, and James Brooke from Okinawa, Japan, and Utapao, Thailand.
This is a DART............
You can see the scale of effort that we have vs the US
*********************************************************
Tsunami Tests U.S. Forces' Logistics, but Gives Pentagon a Chance to Show a Human Face
By THOM SHANKER and JAMES BROOKE
ASHINGTON, Jan. 8 - The huge American relief operation in the Indian Ocean carries risks for the Pentagon but also rewards, employing combat resources at a time the armed forces are stretched thin, but putting forth an image of an American military that is as caring and efficient in saving lives as it is violent and efficient in slaying adversaries.
Senior Pentagon and military officials say the Defense Department carefully balanced its strategic needs with the imperative to open up logistical bottlenecks and begin ferrying water, food, medical supplies and shelter in one of the most challenging relief operations of the last 50 years.
The latest estimates indicate that the Pentagon's portion of the relief effort is costing about $5.6 million per day, and that the military already has spent $40 million on the mission, Defense Department officials said Friday. Total American combat assets - including ships and aircraft - now ordered into the region for tsunami relief are valued at $20 billion.
In the hours after the tsunami leveled coastal villages across the Indian Ocean, killing more than 150,000 and leaving millions displaced, the Bush administration began crunching numbers to calculate relief donations. But a very different kind of risk analysis was under way deep inside the Pentagon and at the military's Pacific Command in Hawaii, these officials said.
Senior military planners calculated in just a few hours how much combat power would have to be preserved for commanders in the Pacific to maintain a credible deterrent against North Korea, and even China, while sending relief assistance.
Senior officers said the most important discussion was with Gen. Leon J. LaPorte, the commander of American forces in South Korea.
"In this particular case, we talked about Korea in some depth," said Adm. Thomas B. Fargo, commander of all American forces in the Pacific. "We did a solid risk assessment, and I am comfortable with our posture."
Although large military commitments to Iraq and Afghanistan have stretched the American forces worldwide, Pentagon and Pacific command planners realized there was an unintended benefit, especially in the decision to move heavy bombers from home bases in the United States to Asia, within easy striking distance of North Korea. This step was taken to maintain a strong deterrent in the Pacific as American military forces flowed toward Iraq.
These changes to the traditional force posture in the region have allowed the commitment of a large military contingent to the aid mission. As of Friday, approximately 13,000 American military personnel, nearly 20 warships and about 90 aircraft were assigned to the relief effort, said Lt. Gen. Robert R. Blackman, commander of American military efforts for the relief mission.
While the military has focused on fighting wars, the relief mission showed how swiftly it can shift missions and provide, on a large scale, such mundane but lifesaving capabilities as global transportation, cargo handling, water purification and emergency medical care.
The aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln, for example, carries as much municipal infrastructure in the Indian Ocean as many American cities.
Officers and enlisted personnel involved in the mission say they are grateful for the change of pace and proud of the relief mission, which presents the world with an image of an American military saving lives of tsunami victims in countries where the United States has strong military ties, and in some where it has few.
Brig. Gen. Jan-Marc Jouas, commander of the 18th Wing at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, Japan, the largest air base in the Pacific, said the military's relief effort symbolized the full range of the American armed services' engagement.
"It shows we are here for more than just the defense of Japan, an ally," he said. "We are here for other missions, the commitment to the defense of Korea, humanitarian missions, disaster relief."
In describing the balance struck by his Air Force assets, General Jouas said the American air wing at Kadena sent cargo transports, refueling tankers and helicopters to the Indian Ocean to take part in tsunami relief but kept ready in the Pacific region its airborne early warning jets and four dozen F-15 fighters.
Speaking at the military's relief command post set up at Utapao, Thailand, he expressed a desire that the military's efforts at tsunami relief would carry a powerful message around the world.
"I would hope that people would see the huge effort that we have put forth to mobilize almost 14,000 service men and women, the number of aircraft we have put into this," he said. "The generosity of the American government and people would countermand the perceptions they may have had."
One senior Pentagon official cautioned, however, "When you commit forces to any contingency, it takes away from your ability to commit elsewhere, especially to the fight." He added that war planners were paying special attention to the strain on the military's transport ability.
The commitment of the Abraham Lincoln carrier strike group and a second amphibious strike group led by the helicopter carrier Bonhomme Richard amounts to a significant combat ability that is, temporarily at least, unavailable to combat commanders.
"Does the effort degrade our ability to operate combat aircraft off the Lincoln? Yes," said one military planner at the Pentagon. "But could it be recaptured before the ship made it to potential crisis location? Also yes."
The American armed forces have routinely been called in for relief, rescue and pinpoint stabilization missions in places like Haiti or Liberia, or deployed over years to avert social collapse and end bloodshed in places like Bosnia or Kosovo. The current relief mission is certain to be shorter than the Balkans deployments, and is likely to do more for the military's image, both among hard-hit citizens along the Indian Ocean rim and around the globe, than other recent missions in Africa or the Caribbean.
A military axiom holds that even the best plans do not survive first contact with an enemy, and much of the Defense Department's expertise is in the ability to plan quickly, rather than in rigidly carrying out the plans themselves.
Thus, officers at the military's Pacific Command said they were able to mount the assistance effort rapidly because they already had conducted a large number of exercises in the region that had incorporated elements of disaster relief.
"Our large multinational exercise that we conduct every year in Thailand is specifically pointed toward humanitarian assistance, disaster relief and peacekeeping, and of course it brings a large number of the nations of the region together to work in this same manner," Admiral Fargo said.
"So you can't point yourself toward a specific catastrophe like this," he added, "but you can put in place the basic training, the habitual relationships and, as I pointed out, the standard operating procedures that apply to a wide range of contingencies and crises."
Thom Shanker reported from Washington for this article, and James Brooke from Okinawa, Japan, and Utapao, Thailand.
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I can only speak with certainty of the medical side of 2 CMBG and DART. The DART and tour manning is assigned by the Fd Amb RSM in consultation with several mbrs of the senior staff. Nobody HAS to go on a deployment and are usually asked to fill a slot on the TO&E prior to final manning is confirmed.
ps-DART can be deployed 90+ days if required. This could be one of those cases.
ps-DART can be deployed 90+ days if required. This could be one of those cases.
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With regard to speed of response and those, me included that felt that DART was activated too slowly by our Government.
There has been a discussion in the past about Airlift vs Sealift and rapid response, some have felt that sealift would be too slow and thus isn't a worthwhile capability.
This from today's UK Sun.
There has been a discussion in the past about Airlift vs Sealift and rapid response, some have felt that sealift would be too slow and thus isn't a worthwhile capability.
This from today's UK Sun.
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http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1105360163703_100769363?hub=topstories#
Dart team arrives, but many other aid workers are packing up to leave?
and if you haven't heard american aid helicopter crashed in sri lanka today. No deaths were reported
Dart team arrives, but many other aid workers are packing up to leave?
and if you haven't heard american aid helicopter crashed in sri lanka today. No deaths were reported
Just a civilian giving you guys a heads up: You're getting some published attention now. From the <a href="http://www.thehilltimes.ca/html/index.php?display=story&full_path=/2005/january/10/civ_circ/&c=1">Hill Times</a>:
The Hill Times, January 10th, 2005
CIVIL CIRCLES
By Paco Francoli
DART airlift to cost Ottawa $4.4-million: Department of National Defence
[...]
On the internet, a number of Canadian Forces staffers were far more blunt in their assessments of DART when chatting on a popular public forum set up specifically for them.
"I was part of [DART] when it first got dreamed up. It seems to keep getting bigger and bigger, but no clearer focus," said a corporal who identifies himself only as Kevin B.
The forum, found at www.army.ca, has been around since 1993 and provides a gateway for anyone interested in the Canadian military. It is not sponsored or connected to the federal government. Most subscribers use aliases but identify themselves as current or former members of the Canadian military.
"DART is like my grandmother's living room furniture looks great, but for goodness sakes don't use it," wrote Bograt, an officer cadet.
After the Canadian government indicated it intended to send DART to Sri Lanka to help with the tsunami disaster, many subscribers logged on to the forum to slam the government for failing to properly fund and equip DART.
"I know same people that have said the DART is a good thing? We do require it. Every country has a DART. We just need the aircraft," lamented Recce41 who identifies himself as a warrant officer.
Many subscribers praised a recent editorial by retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie (who one subscriber called "Uncle Lew") who pointed out that the federal government is stuck leasing Antonov aircraft for DART at a time of high demand.
The Hill Times, January 10th, 2005
CIVIL CIRCLES
By Paco Francoli
DART airlift to cost Ottawa $4.4-million: Department of National Defence
[...]
On the internet, a number of Canadian Forces staffers were far more blunt in their assessments of DART when chatting on a popular public forum set up specifically for them.
"I was part of [DART] when it first got dreamed up. It seems to keep getting bigger and bigger, but no clearer focus," said a corporal who identifies himself only as Kevin B.
The forum, found at www.army.ca, has been around since 1993 and provides a gateway for anyone interested in the Canadian military. It is not sponsored or connected to the federal government. Most subscribers use aliases but identify themselves as current or former members of the Canadian military.
"DART is like my grandmother's living room furniture looks great, but for goodness sakes don't use it," wrote Bograt, an officer cadet.
After the Canadian government indicated it intended to send DART to Sri Lanka to help with the tsunami disaster, many subscribers logged on to the forum to slam the government for failing to properly fund and equip DART.
"I know same people that have said the DART is a good thing? We do require it. Every country has a DART. We just need the aircraft," lamented Recce41 who identifies himself as a warrant officer.
Many subscribers praised a recent editorial by retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie (who one subscriber called "Uncle Lew") who pointed out that the federal government is stuck leasing Antonov aircraft for DART at a time of high demand.
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Thank you, yes we caught that also, pretty shoddy reporting really. What if none of us are even in the military?
Maybe we just read too much and think that, silly no?
Anyway thanks and welcome to army.ca.
Maybe we just read too much and think that, silly no?
Anyway thanks and welcome to army.ca.
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Now that they are in location,
the boys will go forth and do good.
No matter all the bad press, opinions, and political bull**** about when and how they get there, let the world watch in wonder as the DART does things in the Canadian way... Doing work beyond their duties, doing more with less, and succeeding where others may have failed.
the boys will go forth and do good.
No matter all the bad press, opinions, and political bull**** about when and how they get there, let the world watch in wonder as the DART does things in the Canadian way... Doing work beyond their duties, doing more with less, and succeeding where others may have failed.
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Armymedic said:
Couldn't have said it better myself....
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Outstanding quote from a medic who worked for me in 3 RCR....
"We are representing everybody, the whole of Canada. It's not just the military or the politicians," said Cpl. Gretel Quinonez of St. Catharines.
"And if (the Canadian public) could see these people's faces, then they would be like, it doesn't matter how long it took, we're here. And look at them. They're grateful that we're here, and that's what really counts."
whole story here:
http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory4.aspx?id=a1972c7b-6bc9-4445-b912-6da4fead6fcb
BTW: both medic mentioned in the story returned from Bosnia with me in Apr.
"We are representing everybody, the whole of Canada. It's not just the military or the politicians," said Cpl. Gretel Quinonez of St. Catharines.
"And if (the Canadian public) could see these people's faces, then they would be like, it doesn't matter how long it took, we're here. And look at them. They're grateful that we're here, and that's what really counts."
whole story here:
http://www.canada.com/components/printstory/printstory4.aspx?id=a1972c7b-6bc9-4445-b912-6da4fead6fcb
BTW: both medic mentioned in the story returned from Bosnia with me in Apr.
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