Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[daftandbarmy]

perhaps RSS positions can be a way to help when you have to many reg force members sitting on there hands for short periods of the year. Have a brigade EX coming up? okay we are going to send a couple sections, maybe more over to the Reserves, help train them up, get them ready, and go out and work with them for that entire EX. Call it a short term RSS, a quick shot in the arm, especially in a service battalion, a influx of say a section of techs mixed with reservists to shadow/train with would allow skill transfer and keep equipment ready to go.

That's not RSS. It's an OMLT.

Which is a great idea, of course.  :nod:

 

[MilEME09]

That's not RSS. It's an OMLT.

Which is a great idea, of course.  :nod:

I have no idea what OMLT is so forgive me there. I think more intergration between the reg force and PRes, to a extent can be beneficial, less idle hands, and more well trained reservists.

 

[PuckChaser]

Operational mentorship and liason team. It's how we trained kandaks in Kandahar, by imbeding into the kandak and mentoring them in combat.

 

[Kirkhill]

I agree the OMLT idea is a great idea.

But could you make the OMLT team integral to the Reg Force Unit - essentially providing a command cadre for additional sub-units that would be manned by Reservists?

For example 2 PPCLI - could it be established with its current force structure but with additional sub-unit cadres who would be responsible for training the affiliated reserve unit.

2 PPCLI would then have

1x Command and Administration Company
1x Combat Support Company
3x Rifle Companies (Full-strength (Regular))
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with RWR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with LSSR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with NSaskR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with RRR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with QOCHofC)

The Regs would then know their reservists, their training, their capabilities, and their deployability.

With five training bases, even if each unit doesn't parade everybody it has on strength the Regs would have a better sense of whether they had the numbers to field a fourth rifle company, or beef up the Combat Support company, or add a Motor Transport platoon, or a D&E platoon.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I agree the OMLT idea is a great idea.

But could you make the OMLT team integral to the Reg Force Unit - essentially providing a command cadre for additional sub-units that would be manned by Reservists?

For example 2 PPCLI - could it be established with its current force structure but with additional sub-unit cadres who would be responsible for training the affiliated reserve unit.

2 PPCLI would then have

1x Command and Administration Company
1x Combat Support Company
3x Rifle Companies (Full-strength (Regular))
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with RWR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with LSSR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with NSaskR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with RRR)
1x Rifle Company (Cadre (Regular)- Affiliated with QOCHofC)

The Regs would then know their reservists, their training, their capabilities, and their deployability.

With five training bases, even if each unit doesn't parade everybody it has on strength the Regs would have a better sense of whether they had the numbers to field a fourth rifle company, or beef up the Combat Support company, or add a Motor Transport platoon, or a D&E platoon.

I experienced something like that when we had an Op Tasking to support 2 Cdo.

They basically ignored us.

Can't say I blame them as we were a time zone away and had limited ability to connect with them, apart from our annual 'Burma Rig' exercise.

 

[Kirkhill]

Ignorance can happen  ;D

But what if it becomes a gold star on someone's PER?  And you do not get your Company (Reg) without a Cadre gold star?

Like any other plan it can be made to fail.

The problem with getting on in years, like me, (I won't mention our resident members of the XX Legion) is that you end up seeing every possible plan and you have seen them all fail.  But, on occasion, you have seen people make some of those plans work, against the odds.

 

[MilEME09]

Ignorance can happen  ;D

But what if it becomes a gold star on someone's PER?  And you do not get your Company (Reg) without a Cadre gold star?

Like any other plan it can be made to fail.

The problem with getting on in years, like me, (I won't mention our resident members of the XX Legion) is that you end up seeing every possible plan and you have seen them all fail.  But, on occasion, you have seen people make some of those plans work, against the odds.

Reading "The Three meter zone" by J.D. Pendry he talked about his experience of relaxing the rules on enlisted members in barracks, no inspections and such. All the Senior NCO's claimed it wouldn't work and why it wouldn't. He realized it wasn't working because the Senior staff were so keen on it not working, they weren't giving it a chance or trying to make it work. So he brought them all together had a good talk with them all, made some changes, and soon to system was working, all because they tried to help it work. Some times the best plans can fail because those who are tasked with executing it don't want the plan to work.

 

[Kirkhill]

One organization that seems to make the plan work is this one

The 1er Regiment de Hussards Parachutistes owns it own reservists.  They are not from a general pool.

2e REP seems to work the same way.

Perhaps someone can confirm if that is standard practice in France.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

One organization that seems to make the plan work is this one

The 1er Regiment de Hussards Parachutistes owns it own reservists.  They are not from a general pool.

2e REP seems to work the same way.

Perhaps someone can confirm if that is standard practice in France.

Our concept of Reserves does not exist in the French Army.  The Reserve Coy's in French Army Regiments are former professional soldiers that agree to remain in the army on a part time basis when they finish their contract. 

They do minimum training during the year and are mostly there as a supp list in case war breaks out, in which case they will be activated. 

The French Army also uses Reservists with special skills such as Academics who are enlisted on special contracts to do research for them.  They do not have a Reserve Force as we know it though. 

The French Army is 100,000 strong with over 20,000 soldiers on operations at any one time.  They have an Airborne BG on 72hrs NTM and a Brigade on 9 Days NTM at all times.  They don't have the luxury of taking a gazillion years to deploy and sort themselves out.

 

[Kirkhill]

Our concept of Reserves does not exist in the French Army.  The Reserve Coy's in French Army Regiments are former professional soldiers that agree to remain in the army on a part time basis when they finish their contract. 

They do minimum training during the year and are mostly there as a supp list in case war breaks out, in which case they will be activated. 

I think, if you look back at some of my other posts you will see that I have argued FOR that model in the past as well. And actually is one of the reasons I argue FOR the USMCR/USANG models as alternatives for Canada.

But I think the bigger issue is one of the unit knowing its soldiers, be they regs or be they reservists. 

The Reg force unit should have intimate knowledge of its Reservists and in that way could better ensure that the Reservists are trained to their needs - so that they can move to the French (and British) NTM levels.  The alternative is where the Reservists and the Regs get to know each other via a disfunctional eHarmony and neither enjoys the intimate relations that result.

 

[Lumber]

Our concept of Reserves does not exist in the French Army.  The Reserve Coy's in French Army Regiments are former professional soldiers that agree to remain in the army on a part time basis when they finish their contract. 

They do minimum training during the year and are mostly there as a supp list in case war breaks out, in which case they will be activated. 

The French Army also uses Reservists with special skills such as Academics who are enlisted on special contracts to do research for them.  They do not have a Reserve Force as we know it though. 

The French Army is 100,000 strong with over 20,000 soldiers on operations at any one time.  They have an Airborne BG on 72hrs NTM and a Brigade on 9 Days NTM at all times.  They don't have the luxury of taking a gazillion years to deploy and sort themselves out.

Yes, that all sounds great, but:

 

[blackberet17]

The French Army is 100,000 strong with over 20,000 soldiers on operations at any one time.  They have an Airborne BG on 72hrs NTM and a Brigade on 9 Days NTM at all times.  They don't have the luxury of taking a gazillion years to deploy and sort themselves out.

Neither do we, should the proverbial excrement hit the large ventilation device, which we should be prepared for, whether it be at the international or domestic level.

But we certainly like to think we do.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Neither do we, should the proverbial excrement hit the large ventilation device, which we should be prepared for, whether it be at the international or domestic level.

But we certainly like to think we do.

Which is why the current concept of a larger regular, rapidly deployable, force with a small reserve element to provide one for one augmentation to the regular force makes sense.

 

[Kirkhill]

Perhaps an alternate plan would be to do use only the capabilities we have and not those we wish to have.  If you can't rely on your Reserves then remove them from your deployment plans and figure out what you can do with only the Reg forces available to you.

I seldom get to use labour I don't have.

 

[dapaterson]

Which is why the current concept of a larger regular, rapidly deployable, force with a small reserve element to provide one for one augmentation to the regular force makes sense.

Our Reg F ambition for deployment should dictate force size and structure; it should not be driven by parochial capbadge considerations, or PY empire protection.  Unfortuately, our Army of 20000 Reg F proved unable to keep a battlegroup (roughly 2000) in the field for a sustained deployment without significant Reserve reinforcement.  Rather than taking that to heart and making hard decisions about how we are structured and what degree of C2 is truly needed, we've doubled down on the status quo.

Note that parochial capbadge considerations are a prime disabler of the current Reserve structure as well...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It's difficult just to re-locate existing units to places with a population base that would support them. No one wants to touch removing the units altogether. That being said, part of the reg force problem is that it has little or no presence in most of Canada and therefore people have little or no connection to it. The plan that looks like it will be the most efficient, might also be the one that kills your recruitment. We are dealing with humans here, in the military, political and civilian world. Modern western militaries spend a great deal of time trying to get to know the patterns of life, internal politics on the ground in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. I wonder if we ignore that thinking when we are back home?

 

[Kirkhill]

Which is why the current concept of a larger regular, rapidly deployable, force with a small reserve element to provide one for one augmentation to the regular force makes sense.

Bird Gunner:

Just remember that when planning a larger, rapidly deployable force we have to figure on having the means available to rapidly deploy said larger force.  And I still can't figure out whose job that is.

 

[Lumber]

It's difficult just to re-locate existing units to places with a population base that would support them. No one wants to touch removing the units altogether. That being said, part of the reg force problem is that it has little or no presence in most of Canada and therefore people have little or no connection to it.

This makes me wonder why bases are located where they are. In Halifax and and Victoria (but especially Halifax), I saw tremendous support for the forces becuase people saw and interacted with us every day. The Air Force and Army are much MUCH bigger than the Navy, yet their bases are located in BFN: Shilo, Pet, Gagetown, Valcartier, Cold Lake, Goose Bay, Wainright and to a lesser extent Bagotville and Borden. I know some are situated based on their strategic location like Gander, but how much better would it be if they were co-located with major cities like CFB Edmonton, Halifax and Esquimalt?

:2c:

 

[George Wallace]

This makes me wonder why bases are located where they are. In Halifax and and Victoria (but especially Halifax), I saw tremendous support for the forces becuase people saw and interacted with us every day. The Air Force and Army are much MUCH bigger than the Navy, yet their bases are located in BFN: Shilo, Pet, Gagetown, Valcartier, Cold Lake, Goose Bay, Wainright and to a lesser extent Bagotville and Borden. I know some are situated based on their strategic location like Gander, but how much better would it be if they were co-located with major cities like CFB Edmonton, Halifax and Esquimalt?

:2c:

You aren't Army, are you?

The Bases are not the most important factor in the location of the large Army Bases.  The TRAINING AREA is the largest factor.  The Base infrastructure itself takes up a very small percentage of the total area of these "Bases".  CFB Gagetown, CFB Valcartier (an exception with a relatively small Training Area), CFB Shilo, CFB Suffield, and CFB Wainwright are all relatively large Training Areas and IMPACT Zones.  The Army could not reasonably and safely locate such bases near large, ever growing, metropolitan areas.


[EDIT ]

For those who are Air Force, the same applies for why the locations of Cold Lake and Goose Bay were so far removed from populated areas.  They have large IMPACT areas.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

This makes me wonder why bases are located where they are. In Halifax and and Victoria (but especially Halifax), I saw tremendous support for the forces becuase people saw and interacted with us every day. The Air Force and Army are much MUCH bigger than the Navy, yet their bases are located in BFN: Shilo, Pet, Gagetown, Valcartier, Cold Lake, Goose Bay, Wainright and to a lesser extent Bagotville and Borden. I know some are situated based on their strategic location like Gander, but how much better would it be if they were co-located with major cities like CFB Edmonton, Halifax and Esquimalt?

:2c:

The answer is quite simple, those towns where the bases existed didn't want them there (property was too valuable) and they allied with the penny pinchers in government to get them moved because it was also costing the government a tonne of money to have to bug the Army out every time they wanted to train.  For example, the Brigade in Edmonton has to do a road move to Wainwright every time they want to do an exercise, this costs a lot of money.

We used to have Regiments in Chillwack, Calgary, Winnipeg and London.  Now, the only two true urban bases for the Army are Val-Cartier and Edmonton with Gagetown being pseudo-urban due to the relatively close proximity to Fredericton (I don't count Kingston as an Army base).  My prediction is you will see the Edmonton Garrison move to Wainwright sooner, rather than later.  That new maintenance building they built, which is now the largest floor hockey rink in the CAF is probably going to be the future home of the Lord Strathcona's Horse

European Armies get by just fine with having their Regiments in cities so why do we insist on doing the opposite?  I guess because it costs less, theoretically, but we are robbing peter to pay paul at the end of the day.

We could save a lot of money if we just did a lot of low-level training in town but Canadians (especially of the urbanite variety) don't like seeing soldiers with guns running around on their streets.  If you go to Europe you will often see soldiers on exercise out in the towns and villages, some locals aren't happy but you can't please everyone.  They have ranges and training areas of course but there is no reason we can't do a lot of training out in the suburbs or bedroom communities of big cities.  Just requires some staff work, appropriate clearances, waivers and a couple of hand shakes.