Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[PMedMoe]

Sounds like piss poor reporting by the MSM.

As usual.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And that surprises you how, again?

Never said it did  ;D

 

[cavalryman]

The Canadian Armed Forces are set to amalgamate some of the current 140 regiments into a smaller number of bigger units, CBC News has learned.

Cue the honoraries and regimental mafi...er, senates in three.... two.... one....


Hope they have a good plan to carry it through the inevitable political s***storm that's coming down-range.  We're way overdue for rationalisation

 

[geo]

well... things should be interesting for the next little while

Here I am sitting on the sidelines op:

 

[Shec]

Just out of curiousity does anybody have any insights into the effect of  the recent Brit Army unit amalagamations upon esprit d'corps and the regimental family.  Or closer to home, the effects upon morale  of rolling up the QoRC, Canadian Guards, RHC, and FGH into the PPCLI, RCR, and LdSh back in the Trudeau era?

 

[Haggis]

Just out of curiousity does anybody have any insights into the effect of  the recent Brit Army unit amalagamations upon esprit d'corps and the regimental family.  Or closer to home, the effects upon morale  of rolling up the QoRC, Canadian Guards, RHC, and FGH into the PPCLI, RCR, and LdSh back in the Trudeau era?

Umm, I think we've fared OK.  Ask the Taliban if amalgamation has affected the Canadian Army's ability to destroy them in detail.  Clients provide good feedback, y'know.

 

[Shec]

Touche

 

[geo]

The big changes that happened back in the late 60s resulted in the trashing of the Blue, black & khaki uniforms.  That's what got a lot of people spinning in a tizzie & resulted in old salts bailing out.  The decommissionning of ships, the closing down of Air squadrons & the amalgamation of Regiments/Batallions is all part of a military's life cycle.

 

[daftandbarmy]

It will be interesting to see how the Conservative Government reacts to a frontal assault by the Conservative Honouraries. Hey, is that a piper I see marching through the high street and gathering the clans?  iper:

 

[noneck]

D&B - Led by an Ex Speaker of the House of Commons no doubt!

 

[Old Sweat]

It may very well be, said he talking through his hat, that general approval from the honouraries has been obtained. It also may be, still using his chapeau as a mouthpiece, that a certain BGen has either spoken too soon or has launched a pre-emptive strike against CLS.

My rationale for the first suggestion is the example of the 1936 reorganization of the militia by the grandfather of CLS when he was the Chief of the General Staff. It had been conceived in 1932 in order to support an expeditionary force of one cavalry and six infantry divisions for a war in Europe, but it took until 1936 to convince the militia hierarchy that it was a good thing. It may be that the emergence of the Fuhrer may have focussed the attention of the honouraries, but that is just a guess.

My rationale for the second option is good, old-fashioned paranoia.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Well, there has been rather more stringent political oversight on appointments of honoraries in the past few years, hasn't there?

 

[dapaterson]

I do not see this as a preemptive strike against the CLS - I have some knowledge of both men, and BGen O'Brien is loyal and would not work to undermine his boss.  He's also a bit of a pit bull and enjoys a challenge.  I think a dedicated communication plan will follow, to ensure honoraries and communities understand that there is no intent to remove the military presence from communities, but rather to streamline some of the C2 arrangements, and if anything make the force more responsive and able to assist when called upon.


Without telling tales out of school:  there has always been significant political oversight on the appointment of honoraries; it may be that recently the curtain was pulled back a bit and people are more able to see the work of the great and powerful Oz.  There are also, on occasion, nominations submitted that the sponsors should reasonably have known would never fly - almost to the point of "We'd like to nominate John Wilkes Booth as the honorary for Lincoln's Footguards".

 

[Michael OLeary]

There are also, on occasion, nominations submitted that the sponsors should reasonably have known would never fly - almost to the point of "We'd like to nominate John Wilkes Booth as the honorary for Lincoln's Footguards".

I can see that on the checklist of items to determines units most likely to be amalgamated:

"Does this unit consistently nominate inappropriate persons to be their honoraries? (Inappropriate nominations will include political assassins, porn stars, raving lunatics and Liberals/NDP/Bloc/Conservatives (delete current ruling party).)

 

[daftandbarmy]

D&B - Led by an Ex Speaker of the House of Commons no doubt!

Yes, and who also happens to be trained in battle group attacks with CAS provided by P51 Mustangs - luckily :dileas:

 

[len173]

So how exactly does this work? They are talking about closing down many reserve units, I gather? Or does this simply mean, they lose their identity, and become part of a bigger unit? I guess what I'm asking is, will they close down a bunch of armouries? And how does that make any sense, because will it not cost many jobs, as many will leave the reserves. How do you properly train on a regular basis, if you have to travel a great distance to the armoury? How do you parade every week, when people have to travel from all around to be there?

I'm curious, because my application is in right now for the reserves, and I would hate to see the armoury here closed down in 2011, which would be right as I was finishing up my MOC training.

 

[Michael OLeary]

There are some locations where armouries and units are not widely separated, even of units of the same type.  There are other places where relative strengths could see a joining of units into an amalgamated unit organization leaving the same number of locations, armouries and troops, but a more streamlined command structure.  Economies can be made without losing positions.  It's the emotional barriers to change that are hardest to overcome.

 

[gwp]

Defence policy is not about, nor should it be concerned with, preserving units, perpetuating units, services, traditions, and so on. National defence policy is about defending Canada.” Douglas Bland (mid 1990's)

This document is worth reading particularly Chapter Six

http://armyapp.forces.gc.ca/ael/pubs/B-GL-300-008-FP-001.pdf

This historical perspective

http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo3/no2/doc/5-12-eng.pdf

 

[geo]

Len,
I do not see armouries being closed down or the number of boots on the ground changing much BUT, the distribution by rank will change over time.
Do you really need a LCol & CWO to oversee a unit that parades 100 troops on a good day ?
100 troops = a good company.... led by a Maj & MWO.

If we borrow a page out of the British army's reorganisation and "canadianize" it, I would see something like this happening:

The Vanier Regiment
A coy, The Black Watch
B coy, The Royal Montreal Regiment
C coy, The Canadian Grenadier Guards

Le Régiment De Salabery
A coy, Les Fusiliers Mont Royal
B coy, Le Régiment de Maisonneuve
C coy, Le Régiment de Chateauguay (aka 4 R22R)

The point here is - does Montreal need 6 small understrength battalions ?
When they train together, the Montreal units already shake out and make up composite Infantry battalions... doesn't it make sense to make the arrangements permanent ?

 

[WLSC]

Len,
I do not see armouries being closed down or the number of boots on the ground changing much BUT, the distribution by rank will change over time.
Do you really need a LCol & CWO to oversee a unit that parades 100 troops on a good day ?
100 troops = a good company.... led by a Maj & MWO.

If we borrow a page out of the British army's reorganisation and "canadianize" it, I would see something like this happening:

The Vanier Regiment
A coy, The Black Watch
B coy, The Royal Montreal Regiment
C coy, The Canadian Grenadier Guards

Le Régiment De Salabery
A coy, Les Fusiliers Mont Royal
B coy, Le Régiment de Maisonneuve
C coy, Le Régiment de Chateauguay (aka 4 R22R)

The point here is - does Montreal need 6 small understrength battalions ?
When they train together, the Montreal units already shake out and make up composite Infantry battalions... doesn't it make sense to make the arrangements permanent ?

You're forgetting 6 R22R.  There's 7 inf unit in the Montreal region.

I would suggest

The ??? Regiment
A coy, The Canadian Grenadier Guards
B coy, The Black Watch
C coy, The Royal Montreal Regiment
C&S

Le 5 R22R
cie A 4 R22R (Laval)
cie B 6 R22R (St-Hyacinthe)
C&S

Le régiment de ???
Cie A Les Fusiliers Mont-Royal
Cie B Le régiment de Maisonneuve
C&S

I know, 2 bn with 2 coy but I thing the pills would be easer to swallow like that.  The brigade would have 3 inf regt, like's it suppose to be.