Domestic and Arctic Mobility Enhancement Project

[daftandbarmy]

I don't know the technical differences but to me, 'fording' means depth of water something can handle while operating on the bottom without drowning occupants or equipment; whereas 'amphibious' implies some manner of actual 'swimming'. You 'ford' cattle across a river, but they are walking on the bottom; frogs and turtles swim (sort of).

Based on my experience with the BV 202 and 206, in Norway, we seldom did any free floating swims. 99% of the job involved bashing though slush, muskeg, swamps, and half frozen lakes and ponds, as well as the usual oversnow travel. Both vehicles were great at these jobs, but the BV 206 was an order of magnitude faster, and more powerful.

We sent a (unloaded) BV across a fully thawed small lake once, after extensive checking of seals etc, and it did just fine.

They also operated quite effectively at - 50C.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I have also never tried to swim a BV206 but I have taken through more mud than I would have thought possible; up mountains and along paved highways.

I have also ridden in them in the Arctic in the low -30C temp range.

They really can do it all.

 

[Kirkhill]

In critical situations, timely arrival at objectives is crucial. The BvS10 Beowulf is engineered to support its crew in all conditions and terrains

New cold weather vehicles to boost US Army's Arctic readiness

BAE Systems secures $68M in contracts to produce 44 Cold Weather All-Terrain Vehicles (CATVs) for the U.S. Army.

interestingengineering.com

BAE Systems has recently been awarded $68 million in contracts to manufacture an additional 44 Cold Weather All-Terrain Vehicles (CATVs) for the U.S. Army.

This funding includes a substantial $48 million extension to an existing full-rate production contract, initially awarded in August 2022, and an additional $20 million designated for 2025.

...

2022 Contract - $278 million for 163 vehicles (plus spares and support)

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-wins-us-armys-catv-competition-receives-278-million-contract

AUSA 2023: US Army gets first CATV | Shephard

BAE Systems Hagglunds in Sweden is now ramping up production of the Cold Weather All-Terrain Vehicle (CATV) for the US Army following a contract award in August 2022 worth $278 million.

www.shephardmedia.com

...

~ 1.5 MUSD per vehicle (1.7 with spares and support)

 

[rmc_wannabe]

New cold weather vehicles to boost US Army's Arctic readiness

BAE Systems secures $68M in contracts to produce 44 Cold Weather All-Terrain Vehicles (CATVs) for the U.S. Army.

interestingengineering.com

...

2022 Contract - $278 million for 163 vehicles (plus spares and support)

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-wins-us-armys-catv-competition-receives-278-million-contract

AUSA 2023: US Army gets first CATV | Shephard

BAE Systems Hagglunds in Sweden is now ramping up production of the Cold Weather All-Terrain Vehicle (CATV) for the US Army following a contract award in August 2022 worth $278 million.

www.shephardmedia.com

...

~ 1.5 MUSD per vehicle (1.7 with spares and support)

This is the one the CA is hoping for.

Bombardier et al will raise hell regardless.

 

[suffolkowner]

This is the one the CA is hoping for.

Bombardier et al will raise hell regardless.

there are other better Canadian alternatives with actual products than Bombardier

Voyager D12 Carrier

The Voyager D12 Personnel Carrier is an amphibious, articulated, hybrid-electric offroad transport vehicle designed to transport 12 people or equipment in rugged terrains.

www.utvint.com

Home | SHERP | official site in Canada

Sherp

sherp.ca

https://www.foremost.ca/foremost-mobile-equipment/tracked-vehicles/

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I like to see us buy 10 of the Voyagers and test the hell out of them. As much as it makes sense to buy the same BAE vehicle as the US, I want to see support given to domestic products as well.

 

[suffolkowner]

I like to see us buy 10 of the Voyagers and test the hell out of them. As much as it makes sense to buy the same BAE vehicle as the US, I want to see support given to domestic products as well.

the key is we are only supposed to be buying around 100 of them and they are only supposed to be for domestic operations

 

[lenaitch]

there are other better Canadian alternatives with actual products than Bombardier

Voyager D12 Carrier

The Voyager D12 Personnel Carrier is an amphibious, articulated, hybrid-electric offroad transport vehicle designed to transport 12 people or equipment in rugged terrains.

www.utvint.com

Home | SHERP | official site in Canada

Sherp

sherp.ca

https://www.foremost.ca/foremost-mobile-equipment/tracked-vehicles/

One problem with the Sherp (Ark 3400, articulated - closest comparison to Voyageur and BV) is its horrible ground speed of about 18mph.

 

[suffolkowner]

One problem with the Sherp (Ark 3400, articulated - closest comparison to Voyageur and BV) is its horrible ground speed of about 18mph.

does it need to go fast? Is that a cross country speed?

 

[lenaitch]

does it need to go fast? Is that a cross country speed?

It may not need to go fast, but it probably shouldn't go slow. Its advertised ground speed is 30kph (18.6mph), about half of the Voyageur (the BV is advertised a bit slower at 55kmh).

 

[ArmyRick]

the key is we are only supposed to be buying around 100 of them and they are only supposed to be for domestic operations

Honestly, if they are as good as BV series (it appears to be a blatant rip off), then hell yes, keep Canada bucks in Canada. However, lets look closely under the hood so to speak, We don't need another LSVW fiasco.

 

[Kirkhill]

there are other better Canadian alternatives with actual products than Bombardier

Voyager D12 Carrier

The Voyager D12 Personnel Carrier is an amphibious, articulated, hybrid-electric offroad transport vehicle designed to transport 12 people or equipment in rugged terrains.

www.utvint.com

Home | SHERP | official site in Canada

Sherp

sherp.ca

https://www.foremost.ca/foremost-mobile-equipment/tracked-vehicles/

I still prefer the 1987 solution - Get a Canadian builder with expertise in the field (1987 Foremost of Calgary) to enter into a licenced production agreement with a qualified manufacturer with a solid delivery record (1987 Haegglunds).

And produce them by the hundreds, if not the thousands, for the civilian/emergency/military markets. Subsidizing the construction of those for northern terrain will be cheaper than subsidizing the construction of southern standard roads in the north.

 

[DBNSG]

I still prefer the 1987 solution - Get a Canadian builder with expertise in the field (1987 Foremost of Calgary) to enter into a licenced production agreement with a qualified manufacturer with a solid delivery record (1987 Haegglunds).

And produce them by the hundreds, if not the thousands, for the civilian/emergency/military markets. Subsidizing the construction of those for northern terrain will be cheaper than subsidizing the construction of southern standard roads in the north.

So the Oprah solution. You get a BV, you get a BV, you get a BV.

 

[PrairieFella]

As far as I'm concerned every base should have a motor pool of these types of vehicles that can be signed out for winter training at any time. Further, the major population centres in the North should have a bunch of these staged and ready for arctic responses. We needs hundreds, not a hundred of these.

 

[suffolkowner]

It may not need to go fast, but it probably shouldn't go slow. Its advertised ground speed is 30kph (18.6mph), about half of the Voyageur (the BV is advertised a bit slower at 55kmh).

im just curious what the speed requirements are? But im also a slowpoke. Closest i can say ive been was in an argo and i didnt find it slow but i dont think we were going anywhere near 30kph

Honestly, if they are as good as BV series (it appears to be a blatant rip off), then hell yes, keep Canada bucks in Canada. However, lets look closely under the hood so to speak, We don't need another LSVW fiasco.

not exactly the same comparison as the three companies are building and selling their own product that theoretically they would offer

I still prefer the 1987 solution - Get a Canadian builder with expertise in the field (1987 Foremost of Calgary) to enter into a licenced production agreement with a qualified manufacturer with a solid delivery record (1987 Haegglunds).

And produce them by the hundreds, if not the thousands, for the civilian/emergency/military markets. Subsidizing the construction of those for northern terrain will be cheaper than subsidizing the construction of southern standard roads in the north.

But does Formost or UTV need to license produce anothers when they have their own? Agreed on numbers

As far as I'm concerned every base should have a motor pool of these types of vehicles that can be signed out for winter training at any time. Further, the major population centres in the North should have a bunch of these staged and ready for arctic responses. We needs hundreds, not a hundred of these.

Also agreed on numbers and basing. Id add pretty much all the communities in Nunavut especially

 

[Furniture]

im just curious what the speed requirements are? But im also a slowpoke. Closest i can say ive been was in an argo and i didnt find it slow but i dont think we were going anywhere near 30kph

I suspect speed isn't an issue most times, but when speed does matter, it really matters.

Why buy a product that does the same things, just slower?

 

[suffolkowner]

I suspect speed isn't an issue most times, but when speed does matter, it really matters.

Why buy a product that does the same things, just slower?

true. Im really just trying to get a feel for what the need would be i guess and how practical that speed would be

 

[Kirkhill]

So the Oprah solution. You get a BV, you get a BV, you get a BV.

More a case of starting with something that works. Then see who can meet or beat on price and performance.

Why pollute the market with knockoffs that may disappoint?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

true. Im really just trying to get a feel for what the need would be i guess and how practical that speed would be

Ground MEDEVAC is one of the roles it will be filling, so I imagine it will need to have some get up and go.

I would hate to be a casualty hanging out in the back of something lumbering along at 18mph...

 

[Furniture]

Ground MEDEVAC is one of the roles it will be filling, so I imagine it will need to have some get up and go.

I would hate to be a casualty hanging out in the back of something lumbering along at 18mph...

I'd been thinking SAR, and a slight change to a great Gordon Lightfoot line;
Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the cold turns the minutes to hours?