Donation for Short Leave

[Furniture]

The RCN has created the position of Command Master Sailor. And we've had Formation Master Sailors for sometime.

I expressed my disgust that we, Chiefs and POs, have fallen so far that our sailors don't trust us to represent them accurately anymore.

One of the biggest problems we have as Chiefs & POs is that the people who reach the top are often careerists, who will do anything to get to the top. Most of those careerists aren't bad people, but they lose sight of the fact that not everyone thinks like them, and things weren't all that great back when they were Jr., it's just so many years ago that the memories have faded to warm and fuzzy.

 

[Halifax Tar]

One of the biggest problems we have as Chiefs & POs is that the people who reach the top are often careerists, who will do anything to get to the top. Most of those careerists aren't bad people, but they lose sight of the fact that not everyone thinks like them, and things weren't all that great back when they were Jr., it's just so many years ago that the memories have faded to warm and fuzzy.

You're absolutely correct. I know many of my peers who are in this for themselves. It comes from 2 things IMHO:

1) Our talent identification and promotion processes; and

2) Succession Management and the rise of the institutional leader in the C&POs corps, specifically the CPO1/CWO corps.

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's too bad, because if sociopaths didn't turn it into a competition it would probably actually raise more money or have folks looking for those kind of community support things where they could show up as a work party and help people in the community.

Don't be so small minded, think of the sense of belonging it creates

THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES AND THE UNITED WAY: A STRONG PARTNERSHIP​

So, while being in the military can be tough, having the opportunity to contribute to the United Way/Centraide locally brings a sense of belonging that so many Defence Team members desire.

The Canadian Armed Forces and the United Way: A Strong Partnership

By: Lieutenant-Colonel Charleen MacCulloch Being in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) can be tough. On top of the obvious challenges like deployments, training and constantly being posted across the country or outside Canada, military members feel isolated from the communities in which they find t

uwsimcoemuskoka.ca

 

[Navy_Pete]

Don't be so small minded, think of the sense of belonging it creates

THE CANADIAN ARMED FORCES AND THE UNITED WAY: A STRONG PARTNERSHIP​

So, while being in the military can be tough, having the opportunity to contribute to the United Way/Centraide locally brings a sense of belonging that so many Defence Team members desire.

The Canadian Armed Forces and the United Way: A Strong Partnership

By: Lieutenant-Colonel Charleen MacCulloch Being in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) can be tough. On top of the obvious challenges like deployments, training and constantly being posted across the country or outside Canada, military members feel isolated from the communities in which they find t

uwsimcoemuskoka.ca

Wow, the disconnect is impressive.

While a giant check will sure help, it really doesn't bring a sense of belonging to the community.

The community garden happened to be around where I was living on IR, so would routinely run into folks that I met there while walking around, and that genuinely did make it a bit easier to be on IR as I felt more at home.

The civvy Friday thing is just stupid on an operational line anyway though; they did it on ships at one point to try and hit a goal and for most lasted until they got their own clothes dirty. It was okay for some folks I guess, but was just another 'us vs them' that highlighted how much busier some of the departments are alongside compared to others.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The civvy Friday thing is just stupid on an operational line anyway though; they did it on ships at one point to try and hit a goal and for most lasted until they got their own clothes dirty. It was okay for some folks I guess, but was just another 'us vs them' that highlighted how much busier some of the departments are alongside compared to others.

Seriously?

I'm assuming that your issued uniform, in a potentially very dangerous workplace like a warship, has something to do with your personal safety and wearing civvies in the engine room etc might be dangerous...

 

[Halifax Tar]

Wow, the disconnect is impressive.

While a giant check will sure help, it really doesn't bring a sense of belonging to the community.

The community garden happened to be around where I was living on IR, so would routinely run into folks that I met there while walking around, and that genuinely did make it a bit easier to be on IR as I felt more at home.

The civvy Friday thing is just stupid on an operational line anyway though; they did it on ships at one point to try and hit a goal and for most lasted until they got their own clothes dirty. It was okay for some folks I guess, but was just another 'us vs them' that highlighted how much busier some of the departments are alongside compared to others.

I remember on PRE we tried DWD for 1 Friday. Disaster.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Seriously?

I'm assuming that your issued uniform, in a potentially very dangerous workplace like a warship, has something to do with your personal safety and wearing civvies in the engine room etc might be dangerous...

Yes, that was the same year I stopped supporting GCWCC forever after the fleet commander (a Commodore) got all the CO's together and gave them a blast for not meeting some kind of target for donations set arbitrarily by someone at the formation level (who never talked to the unit reps).

One of the ships was expected to raise more than they did the year before, but had gone from being a deployer (with 250 people) to in a DWP (with 30 people), so it was a farce. And also, f&ck them, it's a volunteer organization and donations, not a sales target.

I don't think anyone in the engineering dept even bothered, so was basically just the ops team and a few other folks. But yeah, it was stupid.

That was about a decade ago and the whole thing still annoys me and will never give money to United way again. Fortunately it's easier than ever to donate to charity if you can spare it. At the local Xmas parade the firefighters were collecting money in boots and toys, but they also had QR codes you could scan and donate electronically, so pretty slick.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I'm assuming that your issued uniform, in a potentially very dangerous workplace like a warship, has something to do with your personal safety and wearing civvies in the engine room etc might be dangerous...

Health & safety? Now who's being small minded about charity?

... if sociopaths didn't turn it into a competition it would probably actually raise more money or have folks looking for those kind of community support things where they could show up as a work party and help people in the community.

That. Right. There.

 

[Weinie]

Yes, that was the same year I stopped supporting GCWCC forever after the fleet commander (a Commodore) got all the CO's together and gave them a blast for not meeting some kind of target for donations set arbitrarily by someone at the formation level (who never talked to the unit reps).

One of the ships was expected to raise more than they did the year before, but had gone from being a deployer (with 250 people) to in a DWP (with 30 people), so it was a farce. And also, f&ck them, it's a volunteer organization and donations, not a sales target.

I don't think anyone in the engineering dept even bothered, so was basically just the ops team and a few other folks. But yeah, it was stupid.

That was about a decade ago and the whole thing still annoys me and will never give money to United way again. Fortunately it's easier than ever to donate to charity if you can spare it. At the local Xmas parade the firefighters were collecting money in boots and toys, but they also had QR codes you could scan and donate electronically, so pretty slick.

Yeah been there. On my 5's in the mid 80's you could count on the DS MCpl coming in at least once each week flogging his latest charity, where he shook us down. After 3 and a half months, when I was on the last portion of the course, I pushed back. I immediately went from 95% to failing the High Reliability Soldering portion of the course. Biotch.

 

[AKa]

There's an often an easy way to play the game and take some weight off your unit campaign coord. There's no pressure in my unit to contribute. We are welcome to do so, but it's our own choice.

I donate to my pet charities through the GCWCC. I just make the same donation I normally would make directly and it still goes straight to them. I take care of a big chunk of my small unit's goal and everyone is happy. And I'm not contributing to any of the charities that I personally find problematic. (Ever looked at the executive compensation for the United Way?)

If I felt coerced, it would be another matter altogether. My career has peaked and I'm a cranky old serviceperson.

 

[Furniture]

Yeah been there. On my 5's in the mid 80's you could count on the DS MCpl coming in at least once each week flogging his latest charity, where he shook us down. After 3 and a half months, when I was on the last portion of the course, I pushed back. I immediately went from 95% to failing the High Reliability Soldering portion of the course. Biotch.

That sadly is not surprising to me at all...

You're absolutely correct. I know many of my peers who are in this for themselves. It comes from 2 things IMHO:

1) Our talent identification and promotion processes; and

2) Succession Management and the rise of the institutional leader in the C&POs corps, specifically the CPO1/CWO corps.

1) 100%. We don't talent manage we check boxes on a scrit, and score dots on a PER. There is zero consideration given to using people for their strengths, or considering what it is they want. If you don't want to be CAF CWO, succession managers doesn't care about you or what you want at all.

2) I think it was well intentioned, too many Snr NCMs looked only down and in before. The problem is, it has become a way to excuse treating people poorly.

 

[Halifax Tar]

1) 100%. We don't talent manage we check boxes on a scrit, and score dots on a PER. There is zero consideration given to using people for their strengths, or considering what it is they want. If you don't want to be CAF CWO, succession managers doesn't care about you or what you want at all.

2) I think it was well intentioned, too many Snr NCMs looked only down and in before. The problem is, it has become a way to excuse treating people poorly.

I don't think the intention was malicious, but I think the intention didn't really understand that we are supposed to be first and foremost the "shop stewards" for our subordinates.

I couldn't care less if my CPO1 had a College diploma from Algonquin College. If they can’t speak up and be heard they are useless. There is a reason it takes a higher authority to lay a charge on a PO1/WO and above. We have to be able to push back and question things. That doesn’t mean we don’t support the CoC. But that our counselling will probably not always be supportive and may advise a different tac.

Its my opinion we have become lap dogs, and disconnected from where we came from.

 

[OldSolduer]

The thing is we in the Combat Arms - at least the units I was in - ignored the United Way. We never ever did the civvy Friday BS.

 

[ueo]

There's an often an easy way to play the game and take some weight off your unit campaign coord. There's no pressure in my unit to contribute. We are welcome to do so, but it's our own choice.

I donate to my pet charities through the GCWCC. I just make the same donation I normally would make directly and it still goes straight to them. I take care of a big chunk of my small unit's goal and everyone is happy. And I'm not contributing to any of the charities that I personally find problematic. (Ever looked at the executive compensation for the United Way?)

If I felt coerced, it would be another matter altogether. My career has peaked and I'm a cranky old serviceperson.

Packed United way in when BCompt (MaJ) retired early and took a position at aprox 3X his mil pay! Small example but.....

 

[AKa]

The thing is we in the Combat Arms - at least the units I was in - ignored the United Way. We never ever did the civvy Friday BS.

Civy Friday predated the GCWCC. My pet theory is that the intent was to address the optics of masses of uniformed people in Ottawa spending Friday afternoons at pubs/the mess. Then relatively recently, someone had the bright idea to allow jeans with a contribution. And it's snowballed from there.

On a tangent, it's weird that we have abandoned hair standards but we still insist that jeans are problematic.

 

[Remius]

Civy Friday predated the GCWCC. My pet theory is that the intent was to address the optics of masses of uniformed people in Ottawa spending Friday afternoons at pubs/the mess. Then relatively recently, someone had the bright idea to allow jeans with a contribution. And it's snowballed from there.

On a tangent, it's weird that we have abandoned hair standards but we still insist that jeans are problematic.

Casual Friday - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

CASUAL FRIDAY

Chino, polo or oxford shirt. Discover the Hawaiian origins of Casual Friday.

husbands-paris.com

 

[Good2Golf]

On a tangent, it's weird that we have abandoned hair standards but we still insist that jeans are problematic.

 

[NavalMoose]

Seriously?

I'm assuming that your issued uniform, in a potentially very dangerous workplace like a warship, has something to do with your personal safety and wearing civvies in the engine room etc might be dangerous...

For a while in the 90's you still had to wear uniform to and from work, so on Fridays you could walk onboard in civvies and drop a loonie in the bucket so you wouldn't get jacked up. Being an ET, there was no way I was wearing my own clothes to actually work so I just got changed into work dress which I would have had to anyway since at that time we didn't wear work dress to and from work. It was a treat to not have to sit on the bus wearing those horrible polyester shirts etc.

 

[NavyShooter]

In 2002, I helped setup the UW Campaign office in Halifax in building D-40. (I was with N-6 at the time, and did the computer systems setup for them.)

Some observations as I recall them:

1. Campaign goal was ~ $310,000 that year
2. 3 guys in suits + 1 secretary in the office
3. 3 mini-vans rented for the 3 month campaign (+ 2 weeks before and after for a 4 month total rental)
4. There was a Lt(N) in the Base Comptroller's office working the campaign for the full 12 months
5. There were half-day training sessions for all Chief Clerks in the area run - mandatory attendance
6. The base effectively shut down for the campaign kick-off event - a BBQ on a Friday afternoon. All pers on base were given the afternoon off to attend.

Points to be drawn from the above observations:

-Guys in suits don't work for less than $5K a month. Neither (at the time) did the secretary/clerk employed in the office.
$5K*4 = 20K per month, times a 4 month campaign = $80K in staffing costs

-Mini-van rentals are not cheap. Call it $1K a week at the time. (We had similar vehicles on our charge, so I recall this number.)
$1K*3 = 3K per week, times 4 weeks in a month times 4 months = $48K in van rentals

- Lt(N) Finance Officer annual salary - at the time was probably ~90K per year

- Half day's training for 25x WO's - that's a half day's wages in lost time.
$5K/month divided by 22 days per month is $227 per day, or $113.60 per half-day per person, which means that the half day's training cost almost $3K

- The base BBQ - with a projected attendance of over 2000 was, well, not well attended despite over 2000 people getting the day off. If we look at the WO pay rate mentioned above, and consider that many people didn't make that much money, and we simply call it $100 per half day, and multiply that by the 2000 people that were projected to attend, then you have another $200,000 in lost wages for that half-day.

Now, adding up those, you come up with a grand total of $341,000 in costs (actual and lost time) not including the cost of setting up the office, the IT assets, the stationary, PPNS and ancillaries (overhead projectors, etc) plus the promotional material that they printed in support of it all.

If I recall correctly, DND raised just over the goal that year ($315K~ish?) and were very pleased with ourselves with much slapping of backs and considerable self aggrandizement.

In truth, the entire campaign is a net loss for DND in terms of time and money. We would be better off cancelling the whole program, shutting down all work associated with it, and handing GCWCC a check for the previous year's goal plus inflation for the new year and letting everyone stick to our jobs.

However.

It made me realize that the whole program is simply a means to gain some public attention in terms of DND's contribution back to society. The problem with that is that it's intangible. There is no way to measure it. That said, it likely ends up being just a single sound-bite or a 30 second spot on the local news.

So.

Long story long (as they always are with me) I will not support GCWCC because it is a waste. A waste of time. A waste of effort.

I don't contribute. I even stopped doing the DWAD days on Fridays at the tail end of my time in the Navy, unless it was for the days designated to raise money for HMCS Sackville.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

In 2002, I helped setup the UW Campaign office in Halifax in building D-40. (I was with N-6 at the time, and did the computer systems setup for them.)

Some observations as I recall them:

1. Campaign goal was ~ $310,000 that year
2. 3 guys in suits + 1 secretary in the office
3. 3 mini-vans rented for the 3 month campaign (+ 2 weeks before and after for a 4 month total rental)
4. There was a Lt(N) in the Base Comptroller's office working the campaign for the full 12 months
5. There were half-day training sessions for all Chief Clerks in the area run - mandatory attendance
6. The base effectively shut down for the campaign kick-off event - a BBQ on a Friday afternoon. All pers on base were given the afternoon off to attend.

Points to be drawn from the above observations:

-Guys in suits don't work for less than $5K a month. Neither (at the time) did the secretary/clerk employed in the office.
$5K*4 = 20K per month, times a 4 month campaign = $80K in staffing costs

-Mini-van rentals are not cheap. Call it $1K a week at the time. (We had similar vehicles on our charge, so I recall this number.)
$1K*3 = 3K per week, times 4 weeks in a month times 4 months = $48K in van rentals

- Lt(N) Finance Officer annual salary - at the time was probably ~90K per year

- Half day's training for 25x WO's - that's a half day's wages in lost time.
$5K/month divided by 22 days per month is $227 per day, or $113.60 per half-day per person, which means that the half day's training cost almost $3K

- The base BBQ - with a projected attendance of over 2000 was, well, not well attended despite over 2000 people getting the day off. If we look at the WO pay rate mentioned above, and consider that many people didn't make that much money, and we simply call it $100 per half day, and multiply that by the 2000 people that were projected to attend, then you have another $200,000 in lost wages for that half-day.

Now, adding up those, you come up with a grand total of $341,000 in costs (actual and lost time) not including the cost of setting up the office, the IT assets, the stationary, PPNS and ancillaries (overhead projectors, etc) plus the promotional material that they printed in support of it all.

If I recall correctly, DND raised just over the goal that year ($315K~ish?) and were very pleased with ourselves with much slapping of backs and considerable self aggrandizement.

In truth, the entire campaign is a net loss for DND in terms of time and money. We would be better off cancelling the whole program, shutting down all work associated with it, and handing GCWCC a check for the previous year's goal plus inflation for the new year and letting everyone stick to our jobs.

However.

It made me realize that the whole program is simply a means to gain some public attention in terms of DND's contribution back to society. The problem with that is that it's intangible. There is no way to measure it. That said, it likely ends up being just a single sound-bite or a 30 second spot on the local news.

So.

Long story long (as they always are with me) I will not support GCWCC because it is a waste. A waste of time. A waste of effort.

I don't contribute. I even stopped doing the DWAD days on Fridays at the tail end of my time in the Navy, unless it was for the days designated to raise money for HMCS Sackville.

Philanthropy in general is just a tax scheme for the rich at this point.

United Way is just a middle man that's ultimately controlled by corporate interests. What I didn't know was it was actually started due to allegations of "loss of productivity in the workplace" by Corporations who were being solicited by numerous charities all the time.

My understanding is they were basically told by the money men to "federate or perish" as companies only wanted one charity drive a year as opposed to 50+.

THE UNHOLY MESS OF OUR CHARITY APPEALS | Maclean's | NOVEMBER 15 1953

The fierce and often selfish competition by hundreds of organizations for the Canadian charity dollar — with the apparent results of unrealized goals and exorbitant expenses — leads many confused and harried givers to echo Henry Ford's ultimatum that the fund raisers "federate or perish"

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