drug testing

[SupersonicMax]

Keep this thread on topic - it concerns testing and not your personal opinions on drug use.

Then, if we have to discuss only drug use (and not our opinion), drug use is bad.  Should we close the topic now??

Max

 

[paracowboy]

Then, if we have to discuss only drug use (and not our opinion), drug use is bad.  Should we close the topic now??

Max

you didn't pay much attention in your haste to be a smart-ass. Infanteer said

Keep this thread on topic - it concerns testing and not your personal opinions on drug use.

testing

not

drug use

 

[SupersonicMax]

Well, isn't that our opinion then?  What do you want to know if you don,t want our opinon?  I'm confused  ???

Max

 

[paracowboy]

Infanteer made it pretty clear: discuss testing, pros, cons, legalities, costs in dollars, costs in lives, procedures, etc. Just about anything under the sun dealing with, or pertaining to, drug testing.

Not drug use.

Save the "Drugs are bad, mmmkay." stuff for another thread.

 

[Slim]

As to our esteemed friend from the media I say find another source to get your info as I am sure your true goal is to get a scoop on the numbers/percentage of CF members using drugs. You will not get what you want from this forum.

Hostility is not the way we do business here. Be professional. Whether you are correct or not we do not stoop to that level, regardless of whether its warrented or not.

Consider this your freebee!

Slim
STAFF

 

[orange.paint]

I personally have no civilian friends other than in Newfoundland where I grew up.However one friend who works on a oil field doing non destructive testing (x ray welding on pipes) gets tested regularly.It part of his job.Like he told me if he is inebriated at work and fails to perform his job to a high standard people can be hurt,and the business loses money from down time repairing his shotty job.Therefore the company does a series of random drug test during the year costing the company a lot of money,however this is where risk management comes into play.I am uncertain as to how much the tests cost but in comparrasion to the law suits from injured workers from poor craftsmanship/accidents and in extreme cases, destruction of the pipe line its a type of company "insurance".

For the army the cost in my opinion is even greater.Its life's of our friends and families.It's scary to even think that  if   these people did fail the drug testing that these hard drugs are here in our military community.As patrolman stated I also have no friends who do that sort of stuff,but as a father it scares me that as a teenager experimenting my child could be exposed to heroin,cocaine and other deadly addictive drugs in this area.

The drug testing being not a zero tolerance policy is not a new thing.Once a member is rehabilitated the army See's them as "fixed" and can return to duty.With the lack of drug testing this is where senior NCO's officers must be looking for signs that maybe members are under the effects (or after effects) of narcotics.Soldiers going overseas must be able to also look at their peers with confidence,if you cannot there is a problem.This is not only a social "Canadian issue" it's a personnel management issue that maybe senior NCO's need education in.Not saying they have no idea of what's happening, but as myself who grew up in Newfoundland I have never seen heroin/cocaine/crystal meth.Maybe educating supervisors on this may help on this topic.

As for you senior guys (20yrs plus ago) I have always heard rumors of the "testing truck" that would drive around base to base with a portable lab.Did this ever happen?If so who owned/ran this facility?Why did it stop? It personally sounds like a urban myth to me but I thought I would throw it out there for discussion.Maybe even an idea for the future if it is false (attach to MP's on base?).


Let's also make sure random drug testing is not the random PTE/CPL but random across the board.

This is a sensitive subject but those who don't use have absolutely nothing to worry about.Lets hope the media has it wrong and the numbers reported doesnt show the actual numbers.I just can't picture that many people.

But I know I'm clean,so are my friends. I'll pee in a cup everymorning if I keep getting paid. ;D

 

[TN2IC]

Well here is what DAOD states; I just look around it.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/DAOD/5019/3_e.asp

On other note, what I have heard in the pass, a personal has fail the test while taking supplements from a legal store. ie GNC I am not sure what it was, but the store sold it in the open.

Is there a list where military personal can check to see if their supplements are okay or not?

Cheers,
TN2IC

 

[gnplummer421]

Tomlinsk, I will echo other posters comments, that being honest about who you are makes a huge difference in the replies you receive. I believe drug testing is a must for deploying troops. Follow up testing while in-country should also be conducted. Testing everyone in the Forces is a very expensive venture, the Lab analysis are probably very costly.

I can tell you that I am an ex-soldier, and when I was a Private in 1983, I got caught smoking a joint of weed. I spent 30 days in jail, received 6 months counseling and probation, and waited six months longer than all my buddies to get promoted to Corporal, not to mention the respect that took me years to earn back.  It definitely opened my eyes. It was not worth it.

Gnplummer421

 

[geo]

Drug testing..............
1. There should be continual posession testing.  Each base should have it's own or have access to drug sniffing K9 dogs supported by the MPs or the RCMP or the Provincial Police.

2.  Drug use.  Any incident requires an immediate notification to DMCARM, 12 months of C&P (including continual Pee tests along the way).  I think that, once that year of C&P is done, there should be another 24 months of sporadic follow-up tests to make sure you have kept clean.

 

[orange.paint]

2.  Drug use.  Any incident requires an immediate notification to DMCARM, 12 months of C&P (including continual Pee tests along the way).  I think that, once that year of C&P is done, there should be another 24 months of sporadic follow-up tests to make sure you have kept clean.

That's basically what happens now.IIRC 4 random urine test during the 1 year on C&P.

In my opinion after they are rehabilitated they should be released or put on a career stop for at least five years.Hurt their career bad.Demotions etc.Let clean soldiers who take their job seriously take their positions.

Tomlinsk, I will echo other posters comments, that being honest about who you are makes a huge difference in the replies you receive. I believe drug testing is a must for deploying troops. Follow up testing while in-country should also be conducted. Testing everyone in the Forces is a very expensive venture, the Lab analysis are probably very costly.

I can tell you that I am an ex-soldier, and when I was a Private in 1983, I got caught smoking a joint of weed. I spent 30 days in jail, received 6 months counseling and probation, and waited six months longer than all my buddies to get promoted to Corporal, not to mention the respect that took me years to earn back.  It definitely opened my eyes. It was not worth it.

Gnplummer421

Cost should not be an issue.Soldiers life's are being protected by new vehicles etc.They should look at this as another way to save life's. It's quite interesting to note you spent 30 days in jail.I however have seen cokeheads avoid any jail time.Must be a change in the possession laws since 1983.The army should be locking these guys up.

Our biggest mistake is we are not making examples of these people.Fire them.Then maybe others will rethink losing their income over a few puffs or snorts of dirt.

 

[geo]

.... the 1 yr of C&P & Testing is currently being applied
the 2 yrs of additional "spot checks" is what I think is needed.

 

[Cote]

So drug testing before deployment is new? I thought it was appart of your workup medical or something?

 

[orange.paint]

Don't have to spot check ex military members .But yes If retained they should be viewed as high risk people to re offend and red flagged the rest of their career in my opinion.People fall back into things like this years after the addiction.

 

[medicineman]

Is there a list where military personal can check to see if their supplements are okay or not?

Dietary supplements aren't a regulated industry in Canada the way pharmaceuticals are - just because it says something on the container, doesn't necessarily mean that it's in the powder or capsule.  Just like if you buy some dope off the street, these things can be cut with more or less of the additives they say are in them or something completely different.  In a nutshell "BUYER BEWARE".

There is a booklet published by NDHQ on dietary supps - I think you can get it through the PSP Health Promotion folks.

MM

 

[TN2IC]

Ah thank you Medicineman for sheding some light on the issue.

 

[muskrat89]

I have drug testing in my workplace. I'm writing the policy    We had it at my last workplace, and the one before. Most companies that I know of have drug testing in some way, shape, or form. Our company policy:

Pre-employment
Reasonable Suspicion
Random
Post-Injury (includes breath alcohol as well)

Costs me about 30 bucks to drug-test an employee at the company doc's

 

[youravatar]

Drug testing..............
1. There should be continual posession testing.  Each base should have it's own or have access to drug sniffing K9 dogs supported by the MPs or the RCMP or the Provincial Police.

2.  Drug use.  Any incident requires an immediate notification to DMCARM, 12 months of C&P (including continual Pee tests along the way).  I think that, once that year of C&P is done, there should be another 24 months of sporadic follow-up tests to make sure you have kept clean.

I hear that geo. Just because someone tested positive doesn't mke them a bad soldier. Maybe they just got caught in a moment of weakness.

 

[GUNS]

Drug testing..............
1. There should be continual possession testing.  Each base should have it's own or have access to drug sniffing K9 dogs supported by the MPs or the RCMP or the Provincial Police.

2.  Drug use.  Any incident requires an immediate notification to DMCARM, 12 months of C&P (including continual Pee tests along the way).  I think that, once that year of C&P is done, there should be another 24 months of sporadic follow-up tests to make sure you have kept clean.

Geo, I agree 100%. DND should make drug testing a regular occurrence. Anyone in uniform, from the CDS down should have at least one random drug test a year.

 

[orange.paint]

I hear that geo. Just because someone tested positive doesn't mke them a bad soldier. Maybe they just got caught in a moment of weakness.

Moment of weakness is eating a big bag of chips and not going to the gym cause your too lazy.Shooting heroin isn't.Yes in my opinion it does make them a piss poor soldier.Lets not cuddle these idiots as the Canadian public pays us a lot of money to uphold norms above the civilian population.

While yes i believe serving members with no previous record of drugs should be tested annually I don't agree with retaining drug users.Call me a stick in the mud.

 

[geo]

Geo, I agree 100%. DND should make drug testing a regular occurrence. Anyone in uniform, from the CDS down should have at least one random drug test a year.

Testing everyone every year is extremely time consuming and cost ineffective... Based on Service numbers, I would have a random selection that everyone would be subject to - anytime, anyplace, anyone.....