drug testing

[orange.paint]

If no ones a witch no one gets hurt!

Unlike witches test done to disprove someone was casting spells in the 1700's, our drug test is pretty basic.No one gets dunked in the water or burned at the stake.You pee in a cup.

Geo I can't see what your saying about the sitting around at a party personally.I was told upon enrolment that I was a symbol of the CF.Everywhere I went I repersented them.Having a few puff's at a party could destroy our image of our whole CF if civilians view this.A lot of people like to say what you do on your own time is your own business but they are wrong.

Sort of like if you seen a RCMP officer snorting coke.Personally if I ever did I would view that department very differntly.And act differntly to other members of that force.

Public image is key.(As they do pay us)

Where we need to also put our attention is at the recruit schools.After their first weekend off(where they go party like mad) monday moring instead of PT give them a piss test.Nip the problem in the butt at entry level.

I believe withthe introduction of random testing many of these low grade users will not take the risk, as many have this job as their main income.And starting soldiers off in a zero tolerance policy, which is enforced from day one will set a presedence.


As for casting stones,I believe any clean soldier has the right to throw one.Right up side of some cokeheads brain box.

(sorry for any spelling mistakes/it doesnt want to work)

 

[Slim]

  I said it before the drug testing is good, but lets not go over board on the witch hunts.

Drugs + Army = BAD!!!

There is no overboard.

 

[Sig_Des]

I remember this question:

"Is the candidate capable of operating heavy machinery, firearms, and explosives without the benefit of prescription medication?"

I can imagine they're worried about that. I wouldn't want anyone, I don't care if it's a party puff, or habitual coke use, doing any of the above around me, especially in theater.

Drugs...Test for 'em, for minor stupidity, give'em ONE chance to rehabilitate, and if not, 5F all the way. Do not pass go, do not collect, here's your black mark, and thanks for coming out.

 

[Torlyn]

 
Drug Policy:
The ACLU Drug Law Reform Project is a division of the national ACLU. Our goal is to end punitive drug policies that cause the widespread violation of constitutional and human rights, as well as unprecedented levels of incarceration.

Quoting a drug friendly organization who's goals are more to thwart the US's War on Drugs probably isn't the best reference.  They are using the statistical anomolies as "proof".  Take a look at the science behind a few of their "conclusive" tests, you'll see what I mean.  I did some extensive research in to the ACLU when I was doing my Crim degree.  Their methods are pretty awful.

T

 

[geo]

American Civil Liberties Union......
Who'se avowed goal is to thwart the govenment's hegemony over the masses.
Anything published by them must be read with a sceptical eye........

I know that in my shop they distributed a document that detailed some research that you won't get a positive THC test from 2nd hand smoke - being at a party where others consumed some weed......

 

[Klc]

Not only that... but the last part was obviosuly copy-and-pasted from a website that sells a product they claim defeats testing!

Personally I tend to not trust any information from a company that is trying to sell you something.

 

[spud]

That screeching sound is the rails slowly coming off what is was a good thread. Too bad, very interesting reading for a while.


potato

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Testing everyone every year is extremely time consuming and cost ineffective... Based on Service numbers, I would have a random selection that everyone would be subject to - anytime, anyplace, anyone.....

...and to try to get this back on track...I agree with Geo's post here.  Maybe...add to it ALL will be tested prior to a "high risk" environment if that makes people feel better.

Its like a spot-check on a weekend night by the RCMP for DUI.  Why would you worry unless you had a reason to?

Everyone that gets in the CF knows the score.  You do the crime, you do the time.  Simple.

Going to the sandbox with someone who is a drug user?

Heck.  I don't even want to drive in a panel with someone behind the wheel who does that crap.

 

[geo]

All in favor, say "aye"

-  Aye!

 

[GUNS]

Drugs + Army = BAD!!!

There is no overboard.

So  " Alcohol + Army = Good

Before we have all those who tested positive for drugs " drawn and quartered" less first look at the whole picture.

There are two types of drugs that people tested positive for, a) hard drugs and b) soft drugs.

For those who were found with "hard drugs " in their system, I think they may be long time users and beyond help and may deserve a 5F.
But should be given a chance to "kick the habit".

Those who were caught with " soft drugs" should still be punished but be allowed to prove to DND that they deserve a second chance. They already face six months of urine test if they decide to continue with their military life. 

I have been told that no decision has been made as to how DND will handle this situation, its still work in progress. I am sure whatever DND decides to do will be for the best interest of the military and those who have this problem.

 

[Teflon]

So  " Alcohol + Army = Good

  :

Alcohol + Army = BAD

Those that drink at work outside a approved social function, YES, those that time and time again drink so much that when they wake up and come to work are still impaired or too hung over to do their job safely or properly, Yes

 

[orange.paint]

In the relatively short time I've been in the army (7 yrs) I can honestly say In my line of work drinking and driving and alcoholic's are slowly becoming a thing of the past.Mainly due to strict enforcement by local police and very strict procedures for serving members.Having seen this and what happens when a member is given a example of another member getting booted for drinking and driving,it sure makes people take cabs and not risk it.

You tell soldiers that they cannot do something,make examples of people and the usage will go down.Maybe even without random drug test.If someone is blatantly caught kick them out.I can guarantee many people would be rethinking their choices with that in the back of their heads.

Maybe...add to it ALL will be tested prior to a "high risk" environment if that makes people feel better.

Its like a spot-check on a weekend night by the RCMP for DUI.  Why would you worry unless you had a reason to?

Everyone that gets in the CF knows the score.  You do the crime, you do the time.  Simple.

Going to the sandbox with someone who is a drug user?

Heck.  I don't even want to drive in a panel with someone behind the wheel who does that crap.

Problem being is the cocaine is out of the system pretty quick.A couple of days IIRC?So basically a Fridaynight cokehead can test clean on Monday morning.Something that I have seen though,you catch one cokehead you can guarantee he will squeal on at least 10 others.

cokeheads=crime,theft.
I freaking hate cokeheads. Zero tolerance for them clean now or not.

 

[spud]

Having seen this and what happens when a member is given a example of another member getting booted for drinking and driving,it sure makes people take cabs and not risk it.

cokeheads=crime,theft.

So we now kick people out because they have an impaired charge, when did that change? In my time I saw more thieves who had money problems or morality problems, not coke problems.

potato

 

[geo]

So  " Alcohol + Army = Good

Those who were caught with " soft drugs" should still be punished but be allowed to prove to DND that they deserve a second chance. They already face six months of urine test if they decide to continue with their military life. 

I have been told that no decision has been made as to how DND will handle this situation, its still work in progress. I am sure whatever DND decides to do will be for the best interest of the military and those who have this problem.

With respect to alcohol.... drinking & posession of booze is legal... that`s the law - the CF takes a dim view of DUI & deals with that issue on an ongoing basis.

WRT drugs,... it's a 12 mths of C&P & 12 mths of testing

 

[Sig_Des]

So we now kick people out because they have an impaired charge, when did that change?

I know that with my old Regiment, we took a hard-line with DUI. If you had a conviction, you lost your sec clearance and 404s were suspended, therefore making you unsuitable for further service.

 

[orange.paint]

So we now kick people out because they have an impaired charge, when did that change? In my time I saw more thieves who had money problems or morality problems, not coke problems.

potato

When their only PCF is a driver and they are no longer employable.

 

[GO!!!]

So we can all agree that drugs are bad, and those who use them should be punished, somehow.

What about the publication of the names of perpetrators, and what they tested positive for?

I for one would like to see the names and ranks of everyone random tested, and their results, pass or fail. It would go a long way in promomoting a credible "zero tolerance policy" if we all got an e-mail every month stating who had been tested, from the CDS on down.

Rumours (which I will not spread) are swirling about the drug testing that has been done - I think that the CF would do well to release the results to the public.

 

[gnplummer421]

I don't know about releasing names to the public unless they are sex offenders. Granted drugs and the Military don't mix. One has to wonder about a guy hacking his way through a pot field in Afghanistan and goes "swoosh" this buds for me.

Although I am against drugs in the Army, I am a firm believer in personal rights and freedoms, and what a person does on his or her own time away from the job and nowheres near anywhere they could hurt someone....well you see my point.

I know I'll propbably get hammered for the above statement, but I was given a second chance whilst in the Army, and I think I turned out allright. Everybody makes mistakes, I've never met a perfect person yet.

In my days, booze was the drug of choice, and I've certainly felt unsafe on occasion being on duty with someone who is badly hung over. In my eyes the only difference between a drunk and a pothead is the latter is illegal.

Hopefully we don't have too many of either on the front lines.

Gnplummer421

 

[GUNS]

421, totally agree with you. Everyone makes a stupid mistake once in their life. If its your first infraction then the 12 months of C&P and testing is sufficient punishment. There is no need to publish names unless there is a second infraction. DND should allow those that test positive the opportunity to prove themselves.

 

[McG]

What about the publication of the names of perpetrators, and what they tested positive for?

If a member tests positive & goes on C&P, the process includes mandated testing.  Fail one of those tests & get charged.  Results of trials are published.

This gives guys a chance.