Drug use/drug testing in the CF (merged)

[Andyboy]

Hmmm I post a link, no response. I copy and paste from the link and get 3 responses, interesting.


Gate Guard:

Maybe I misunderstand but are you seriously asking why I would post a link to what our Senate thinks about Marijuana and what their recomendations to our Government are?

I find it interesting and rather telling that you are asking me to clarify a highlight from this study. It‘s not my study, if you want clarification read it yourself. Or ignore it, your choice.

By the way Gate Guard I‘m pretty sure Mr.Bobbit can speak for himself, if he has aproblem with what I‘ve posted he‘ll let me know.


Infanteer:

We already have a society that tolerates and, in somes cases, encourages drug addiction. Are cocaine and heroin treated the same way as caffeine and alchohol? Should they be?


Aquinus:

I‘m not sure I understand your point.


To all:

I posted this link and it‘s conclusions so that we could all see what our senate recommended to our government. It‘s not my study, I didn‘t write it. If you want to know where they got their conclusions and why, read it. It took me about 45 minutes. You may be surprised what you learn.

 

[GrahamD]

Basically, my whole argument is
DO WE WANT A SOCIETY THAT IS TOLERANT OF DRUG ABUSE?!?

We already do.

Why should alcohol abusers be permitted to use their drug of choice but not a marijuana user?

They are in the identical class of drug. Depressants. A way that some people choose to unwind after a stressful day, or to ease social situations, or whatever. It doesn‘t make use of alcohol right in a lot of peoples minds, just because its legal. Just the same as it will obviously never be right in your mind if they choose to eventually lagalize marijuana.

The evidence has shown that marijuana is a substance that can not be categorised alongside other more potent and problematic drugs, ie cocaine, heroin, ecstacy, LSD, speed. It‘s not such a simple black and white "say no to drugs" kind of drug. It‘s mild, safe, only proven to have mild health risks, and ALOT of canadians use it. Not just kids, not just burned out hippies, its use can be found in nearly every demographic in this country, up to and including our politicians.

That‘s why its happening. It‘s going to happen, and there‘s not too much that anyone can do about it. The no side is on the ropes.

 

[Jungle]

There has been no talk of legalizing it.
Now the problem with studies on health effects is the results are not as solid as those on alcohol use. While it has been easy to study the effects of alcohol by following a few drunks around, most studies on marijuana‘s effects on health are short term studies, because of the illegal nature of the drug. There have been no studies on regular use over 30 year-periods... so basically we don‘t really know.
Despite what some pot-heads think (including some on this site) smoking pot will remain illegal, and a criminal offence. If you are caught carrying a few grams, but not smoking you will still be fined... hopefully they will catch enough of you to lower my income tax
One last thing, don‘t show up in my Platoon or Coy if you‘re a pot-head, because when I find out I‘ll deal with you, and it will have nothing to do with me buying your shyt !!!

 

[muskrat89]

First of all, I wouldn‘t consider the Senate an authority on anything, except maybe patronage.

Next, I think what disturbs some of the more conservative members is that the Military has always held a different set of standards for it‘s members than the rest of society. The trend, over the years has been to keep imposing Canadian society‘s standards on our military. As civilian standards keep becoming more liberal and pc, the chasm widens, in my view, between traditional military values, and those of the "general population" - in the 40s for example, I don‘t think the differences were that great (if that made sense). Personally, I feel that what is asked of soldiers is far different than what is asked of accountants, lumberjacks, farmers, bankers, etc. I feel this justifies a different set of standards.

I guess, in the long run, regardless of what the civilian side decides, there‘s nothing (hopefully) keeping the military from staying drug free. My employer has a zero drug/alcohol tolerance, including random testing, and post-injury testing. If I don‘t like it, I can work somewhere else. My personal problem, as a Supervisor, with pot is - that it is relatively easy (for me) to tell if someone has been drinking on the job. It is much harder (for me) to tell if someone has been sparking up a zeppelin. I work with cranes, heavy equipment, and machinery that can kill/maim you. I‘d rather not have people impaired, by anything. Much like when I was leading soldiers in the Military.

 

[muskrat89]

Thank you Jungle! What a knack you have for bringing order out of chaos. As always, your posts breathe sanity into some bizarre conversations

 

[Andyboy]

I think you make agood point Jungle in that we really don‘t know for sure one way or the other, but it seems that there isn‘t anything to show that it does do harm. I don‘t have access to any hard data on it but I believe there are several studies that discount the dangers, of course there are several that do say it‘s dangerous too so what are you gonna do. Personally i think there are more harmful substances out there that do more damage on a greater scale and cost more to our society. I don‘t know if we should legalize pot or not though but I do think you‘re right, as long as it‘s considered part of the drug war in the US it won‘t be legalized here.

You make a good point about the workplace, Muskrat. The question is will legalizing it make it a more common occurance? I don‘t know. A good friend owns a factory and has problems with people being stoned at work and like you said Muskrat, they have a zero tolerance policy, (as they should) but why would that policy change if marijuana was legalized?

I dont‘ necessarily think of them as authorities on anything either and seeing as the point of posting the Senates conclusions seems to be missed let me lay it out. The government commisioned the Senate to investigate marijuana, the Senate did so and came to some conclusions and using those conclusions made a number of recommendations. What you or I think of the senate is inconsequential because this is the only official document our Government has, in other words it will give you some insight into what they think, right or wrong.

 

[Staff]

I read something on another thread earlier, and it‘s been bugging me.

No matter what the Hippies on civie street can get away with, we (for the most part) are still in the military, therefore subject to military law, and if you are caught smoking pot, you are going to get your PP slapped. If you are caught smoking up at a school, it will be slapped with the biggest **** hammer they can find. Almost all unit commanders have gone almost draconian when enforcing the forces‘ Zero Tolerance rules. I completely agree with them.

I thought I‘d mention it for the sake of the younger readers who are thinking about joining.

 

[Enzo]

I was going to respond, but my bong broke. What‘s the topic again?

 

[Enzo]

No worries. I have duct tape. Besides, drugs are bad. Right now I‘m almost sober... well, the 5 scotches are for my stress levels, the 3 glasses of red wine weere forr my heartt. That shot of Tequillaaa wass to pay my ressspectsss to teh Mexicanns. My cigar is for teh atmosphere and that percocet I dropped goes nicely wwith my Viagra.

Yep, no drugs for mee.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

Yes drugs are bad!

The last thing I want is my life in the hands of a blade!

 

[Garry]

I‘ve always been told why we do things in the Military- everything from drill to why we button pockets has a solid, common sense/combat efficiency based reason for the action.

It may be worthwhile to add why Marijuana is bad for the average soldier.

The active ingrediant in marijuana is abbreviated as THC. This drug is hallucinogenic, meaning it not only distorts your version of reality, but adds to it. The THC is stored in the fat cells of your body for quite awhile (no one seems to know for sure just how long). The THC us released from the fat cells, and back into the bloodstream (thereby starting to screw your head up again) by adrenalin.

Adrenalin is a chemical that your body produces when you are in a stressful situation: it helps the body perform a variety of actions at a faster/better level.

Since the stored THC is released only during stressful situations, it‘s fair to assume that when you really need your wits about you, you‘ll be impaired.

Not a good situation.

Hope this helps in your decision making process.

Cheers-Garry

 

[nbk]

Ha wow...

But actually THC is not hallucinogenic. Distort and cloud your judgement it does, but it does not make you hallucinate any more then alcohol does.

Although some THC does stay stored in fat cells for up to a month afterwards, it is a complete myth that it can leech out and make you high again. Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol is the chemical that makes you high when you smoke marijuana. Most people just call this THC, but this is confusing: your body will change Delta-9-THC into more inert molecules known as "metabolites", which don‘t get you high. Unfortunately, these chemicals also have the word "tetrahydrocannabinol" in them and they are also called THC, so many people think that the metabolites get you high. Metabolites such as "11-hydroxy-tetrahydrocannabinol" and "11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol" remain in your system, (and that is how drug tests can catch you) however these properties can not make you "high".

All drugs (including alcohol and even medicine) impare your judgement, so you are best to avoid them all as much as possible in the field.

If you are going to be in the armed forces. Do not break any laws. And as well do not do things that will compromise your health. Marijuana is still sort of illegal for the time being, so don‘t use it. Smoking anything is very very bad for your health, so dont do it.

 

[Jeff Boomhouwer]

What you do at home off duty is your business.What you do in uniform is another. Pot is no worse or better than alcohol. One just happens to be taxable.

 

[combat_medic]

Boomer; if, during your off time, you choose to look at child pornography, smoke crack, or have sex with underage prostitutes, is that also acceptable? All of those activities, along with smoking pot are illegal, not to mention immoral, and have no place in the CF.

Besides, if you‘re in the Reg Force, your time off is not your own. If you get caught drinking excessively, off base during your time off, you can still be charged under the NDA.

 

[Staff]

@Boomer: Members of the armed forces are subject to the code of service discipline and military law whether at home or on base, in uniform or not.

The opinions of a few doctors, based on the results of a couple of studies, no matter how convincing, will not help in any way if a member of the forces is caught either in possession or using any controlled substance.

The policy is ZERO tolerance. It is fairly clear what that means. Any comparison between "legal" drugs and "illegal" drugs is moot. The policy is black and white. Booze is tolerated, pot (or whatever) is not.

 

[koalorka]

No member in the CF should have anything to do with pot. This country is becoming a little too liberal in it narcotics and same-sex laws. We are becoming Belgium or even worse...the Netherlands. Now that is one scary place. I use to live in Germany, and I remember all of Europe laughed and was disgusted by those two stupid countries, that lost all moral values and ethics. But there is now a conservative uprising in Belgium and Holland, seems that the people are sick of thousands of dopers and criminals on the streets, not mentioning homosexuals. I just hope that Canada doesn‘t have to go through that.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Im with Rafal_L. Everybody in the CF has signed a document regarding substance use, and are expected to abide by military standard. in other words, you‘ve given your word to stay away from that **** so many in today‘s society accept as the norm. If your word means anything to you, you‘d stay clear of it. personally, I‘ve never touched a roach in my life, and dont plan to change my habits. i‘ve no problem with Alcohol, but anything above is just flat out pointless, and if your caught with it, you deserve what you get.

Like others have said, i dont necessarily feel like sitting next to a hop-head with a rifle any time soon. And i dont plan on putting anybody else in that situation.

 

[sinblox]

FUBAR, what does homosexuality have to do with this? Do you realize when you joined the CF you agreed not to discriminate against homosexuals?

 

[Marauder]

That doesn‘t mean that you can‘t disagree with that "lifestyle" (that‘s a ******* misnomer if there ever was), nor that you have to praise it.
I know some of you think that appeasing the PC jackboots is the only way to go, but I and most guys I have met in uniform don‘t subscribe to that theory/practice.
And if you can‘t honour an oath to keep your hands off the cheeba, then how can I trust you to keep your word that you‘re gonna watch my back? Druggies of any stripe have no place in the CF.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Discrimination is bull$h!t. A person is a person. only thing that would bother me is the drug aspect of this topic...