Election time? - Go now or wait for Gomery?

[canadianblue]

Tell me, to what decade do you imagine the CPC is going to roll us back?  Are we one CPC majority away from realizing a shift in time and space to Dickensian England or the segregated southern US?

Aw yes, thats an age old argument always made. Well I would'nt mind reversing alot of Trudeau's policies, and bringing back pride in our country again, that would always be nice. My grandfather grew up in the 40's and 50's, and this wasn't that bad of a country to him, I mean 100,000 Canadian's died for that awful country you are referring to, and I doubt they died for a country which was oppressive and evil which you seem to think it was.

It really bothers me about Sudan because Paul Martin originally said we couldn't send troops their, now that his government is in trouble he can send troops to Sudan. Sorry to say it but thats a bargaining chip their, and he's just trying to save his government. I remember when everybody thought Paul Martin was going to be the best prime minister ever, as it turns out he'll probably be the worse PM Canada ever had.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Aw yes, thats an age old argument always made. Well I would'nt mind reversing alot of Trudeau's policies, and bringing back pride in our country again, that would always be nice. My grandfather grew up in the 40's and 50's, and this wasn't that bad of a country to him, I mean 100,000 Canadian's died for that awful country you are referring to, and I doubt they died for a country which was oppressive and evil which you seem to think it was.

It really bothers me about Sudan because Paul Martin originally said we couldn't send troops their, now that his government is in trouble he can send troops to Sudan. Sorry to say it but thats a bargaining chip their, and he's just trying to save his government. I remember when everybody thought Paul Martin was going to be the best prime minister ever, as it turns out he'll probably be the worse PM Canada ever had.

Actually it wasn't just that we wouldn't send troops.  It was that we wouldn't deploy without a UN resolution.

I haven't seen a UN resolution.  Anyone else seen a UN resolution?

Newest oxymoron: "Liberal Commitment"



Matthew.  ???

 

[Horse_Soldier]

I remember when everybody thought Paul Martin was going to be the best prime minister ever, as it turns out he'll probably be the worse PM Canada ever had.

No, that distinction will go to Trudeau, since he actively screwed the country with his policies and landed us where we are now.   Close second will be his lapdog, Chrétien.   Martin hasn't really done anything of importance as PM, compared to those two, and will likely end up in the same historical league as John Turner and Kim Campbell.

 

[Danjanou]

No, that distinction will go to Trudeau, since he actively screwed the country with his policies and landed us where we are now.   Close second will be his lapdog, Chrétien.   Martin hasn't really done anything of importance as PM, compared to those two, and will likely end up in the same historical league as John Turner and Kim Campbell.

Hopefully 8)

 

[canadianblue]

No, that distinction will go to Trudeau, since he actively screwed the country with his policies and landed us where we are now.  Close second will be his lapdog, Chrétien.

Thats true, however to most Canadian's unfortunately he is considered the greatest Prime Minister, more or less because they don't know anything about Canadian History before Trudeau. I hate Trudeau, what the hell did he even do, he screwed the country over it. Besides that, where was he during Korea and World War, I can tell you for certain that he wasn't supporting Canada during those two engagements.

[Actually it wasn't just that we wouldn't send troops.  It was that we wouldn't deploy without a UN resolution.

I haven't seen a UN resolution.  Anyone else seen a UN resolution?

Newest oxymoron: "Liberal Commitment"
/quote]

During the Kosovo engagement was their a UN resolution supporting NATO. I don't remember one but I could be wrong. I believe that the CF was present their, CF-18's attacked targets in Serbia correct, and apparently JTF-2 was there also.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

RE:  The need for a UN resolution, I was referring to a comment Paul Martin had made personally in the last little while.  There was no resolution on Kosovo, but obviously that was a different guy.

My point is that Mr Martin appears to change positions based on his perception of his ability to save his own skin as opposed to based on a moral or ethical imperative.




M. 

 

[canadianblue]

My point is that Mr Martin appears to change positions based on his perception of his ability to save his own skin as opposed to based on a moral or ethical imperative.

Well thats politicians for you, especially the Liberals they screw over anybody to stay in power. Hell, Paul Martin would probably prostitute himself to Ron Jeremy to keep power.

 

[larry Strong]

Well thats politicians for you, especially the Liberals they screw over anybody to stay in power. heck, Paul Martin would probably prostitute himself to Ron Jeremy to keep power.

Geez that would be one butt ugly film - no pun intended.

 

[Slim]

What bothers me so much about this whole situation is, even if we have an election, the Liberals have managed to scare the majority of Canadians into voting Liberal, through Conservative fearmongering.

I believe that the average Canadian knows that the Libs are crooks, who want nothing more than to stay in power at any cost. Its just that no one will vote for anyone else.

And now, through a none-confidence vote, the Libs are refusing to turn over the govt power even though the vote went against them!

Isn't that dictatorship?!

Jesus...Someone please get these clowns out of powewr before they completely destroy the country!

Slim

P.S. They can take the gun registry with them...

 

[a_majoor]

We are in some sort of unstable transitional period in Canadian history. I forget where I heard this exactly, but the Liberal party was characterized as a "brokerage party" which attempts to gain and maintain power by patronage games, regional deals, total lack of defining vision and all the other things we have come to loath.

The other part of the description is that brokerage parties are common in weak and immature democracies, and sooner or later, they pass out of existence (there may still be a Liberal party after the transition, but they will actually represent something. As a bonus, they may be actual liberals, committed to individual rights and responsibilities and limited Government [that is the correctly political meaning of the word liberal, after all]).

For the next five years or so, I would expect a turbulent period of unstable minority governments, with the left wing axis defined by the Liberals, NDP and perhaps the Green Party, with the Conservatives and Bloc forming an "economic conservative" coalition, perhaps resembling the Mike Harris government in Ontario. The only hope for breaking the deadlock in either direction would be the increasing radicalization of the left alienating large blocks of voters (similar to the current self immolation of the Democrats), or a large enough block of left wing voters creates the conditions for a socialist coalition government (hello Green Card!).

My own thoughts as to how to make real changes to Canada would be to concentrate on the cities. Civic government has the potential to be the nexus of a political revolution. In my home city of London, city council spends like Liberals and has given us a combined 13% tax hike in the last two years alone. If the right sort of people could be elected with the drive to commit to deep spending cuts and tax roll backs, millions (I estimate up to $100 million, one Adscam) could be released back into the productive economy in London alone. Imagine if major urban centres started going this way in response to high tax bills; the Canadian economy would receive a real boost, with perhaps billions of dollars returned to the productive economy, and the taxpayers would be able to see without any shadow of a doubt this is entirely due to local politicians and has nothing to do with the provincial or federal levels of government.

After a while, the same taxpayers might decide this same program of deep spending cuts can be applied to the other levels of government as well.......

 

[PuckChaser]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/14/sudan-canada050514.html

Sorta on the same topic... I wonder what Kilgour is going to use to secure his vote now that Sudan doesn't want troops on the ground. I guess maybe the government should ask the country involved before we start sending troops all over the place without a UN resolution?

 

[a_majoor]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/14/sudan-canada050514.html

Sorta on the same topic... I wonder what Kilgour is going to use to secure his vote now that Sudan doesn't want troops on the ground. I guess maybe the government should ask the country involved before we start sending troops all over the place without a UN resolution?

Wanting to send troops wherever we want is the mark of an Imperial power...Lets see Martin square that away (among all the other contradictions)

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/14/sudan-canada050514.html

Sorta on the same topic... I wonder what Kilgour is going to use to secure his vote now that Sudan doesn't want troops on the ground. I guess maybe the government should ask the country involved before we start sending troops all over the place without a UN resolution?

We shouldn't kid ourselves.... Paul Martin would promise a $2 billion grant to build Disney North in Yellowknife if he thought it would get him this confidence vote.



M.  

 

[RCD]

We need to do it NOW.An the dark horse in this race is
THE GREEN PARTY

 

[Gunnar]

I think you meant a PALE horse....the Green Party would be the kiss of death for what is left of this country.

 

[scm77]

Belinda Stronach has crossed over to the Liberal side of the house.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/stronach-liberals050517.html

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I just about dropped my tea when that came on the TV............and right to cabinet, methinks she is liking this power thing.....

EDIT...just noticed  that we have a thread going on that now, lets keep it seperate, if possible.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/30793.0.html

 

[a_majoor]

I hope Ms Stronich gets tossed whenever the next election happens.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So the answer to the question is that we wait for Gomery.  I am also waiting to see whether anyone else crosses; I doubt Stronach was the only person to whom an offer was presented.  The election campaign will last six months - perhaps longer if the promise to hold an election after Gomery reports is as solid as most other Liberal promises.

 

[a_majoor]

Good luck any of us waiting for the commision: either it gets closed down like the Somalia Inquiry or the "30 days after" keeps getting put back due to leagal challenges and other "procedural" trickery.

Bottom line, and this is the meme we need to push over evey available channel:

The government was defeated in a vot of no confidence last week, and chose to defy the will of the people