F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[Kirkhill]

This, from VICE:op:

I wonder if the sales department at Lockheed Martin has experience in tailoring proposals.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I wonder if the sales department at Lockheed Martin has experience in tailoring proposals.

"Tailoring,"  "fine tuning," "adjusting to new market realities" ...

 

[MarkOttawa]

F-16V for RCAF?
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-lockheed-sees-bright-future-for-f-16v-427382/
http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-16-overseas-order-potential-prompts-lockheed-keep-line-warm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/news/a17874/f-16v-first-flight/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

Typical top notch reporting from Vice. Eurofighter is almost 50% more expensive than F-35. Dassault is the only ones who can claim being vastly cheaper.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Very interesting article, not hot on Super Hornet, rather likes Gripen, Rafale:

Fighter news round-up: Royal United Services Institute’s Justin Bronk examines the current state of fighter aircraft programmes around the world
https://hushkit.net/2016/07/24/fighter-news-round-up-royal-united-services-institutes-justin-bronk-examines-the-current-state-of-fighter-aircraft-programmes-around-the-world/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[jmt18325]

Out of the box is a good thing, IMO.  I would like the F-35, but the timing isn't good right now.  We're buying out of the box ships for the JSS and CSC - why not for fighters?

 

[MarkOttawa]

Nonsense at Vice piece:

...All of them make fighters that, while less advanced than the stealthy F-35, are vastly cheaper...
https://news.vice.com/article/canada-may-become-the-first-country-to-ditch-the-f-35-fighter-jet

See:

F-35 and Canadian Election: Liberals Loose With Fighter Costs
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/mark-collins-f-35-and-canadian-election-liberals-loose-with-fighter-costs/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[PuckChaser]

Out of the box is a good thing, IMO.  I would like the F-35, but the timing isn't good right now.  We're buying out of the box ships for the JSS and CSC - why not for fighters?

Out of the box implies MOTS purchase. F-35 is just as much MOTS as any other fighter aircraft. The only reason the timing isn't good is the political optics of campaigning against an aircraft and then having to pick it, because it's the best and cheapest one after all.

 

[CBH99]

He should have just campaigned on not sole-sourcing it.  That way he could have kept his options open.

By promising to exclude the F-35 from our selection, he effectively took his own options off the table.  If he had simply said "We won't sole-source the F-35, but will instead hold a competition to select the best possible aircraft for Canadians" - he'd have a lot more wiggle room.

 

[PuckChaser]

That would have required logic and common sense, instead of flippant remarks and pandering to opinion polls/special interest groups.

 

[jmt18325]

Out of the box implies MOTS purchase. F-35 is just as much MOTS as any other fighter aircraft. The only reason the timing isn't good is the political optics of campaigning against an aircraft and then having to pick it, because it's the best and cheapest one after all.

F-35 will be off the shelf when a country (any country) is able to declare it fully operational.

 

[jmt18325]

He should have just campaigned on not sole-sourcing it.  That way he could have kept his options open.

By promising to exclude the F-35 from our selection, he effectively took his own options off the table.  If he had simply said "We won't sole-source the F-35, but will instead hold a competition to select the best possible aircraft for Canadians" - he'd have a lot more wiggle room.

Agreed, they would have been far better.

 

[QV]

Yet the current government quietly spends millions more on the F35 program. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f35-stealth-fighter-jet-1.3696269

 

[PuckChaser]

F-35 will be off the shelf when a country (any country) is able to declare it fully operational.

So 3-5 months from now? We can barely get the office furniture picked for the project office in our procurement cycle in that time, let alone write a statement of requirement and hold a competition.

If I have to post a SOR on MREX for $50k worth of shelving, waiting approx 8 months for the gongshow of bidder questions and submissions to finish, maybe the Liberals should do that with fighter procurement worth mega billions of dollars?

QV: That's less of a story, they were obligated to make the payment, and deliberately missed it to see if the media would pick up on it. They were going to make it anyways, but the government used it as an opportunity to test public support/opposition to staying in the program. They expected an outrage for having to pay into the program, but what they got was media coverage on how they missed a required payment and questions about their official position. The narrative didn't go as planned.

 

[AlexanderM]

Yet the current government quietly spends millions more on the F35 program. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f35-stealth-fighter-jet-1.3696269

I'm actually pleased to see this.

 

[QV]

Thanks Puchchaser for the summary. 

 

[jmt18325]

Yet the current government quietly spends millions more on the F35 program. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f35-stealth-fighter-jet-1.3696269

Contracts

 

[jmt18325]

So 3-5 months from now?

Not IOC, FOC.

 

[Loachman]

For some perspective, our Chinook fleet has yet to achieve FOC, but that does not mean that it is not gainfully employed doing useful things.

 

[PuckChaser]

Not IOC, FOC.

ASH - Not FOC
Gripen NG - Not FOC
F-35 - Not FOC

You still don't understand what IOC and FOC mean. IOC in one country could be FOC in another, or at least a lot closer. FOC for the USAF is 1,700 F-35As. By that logic, we'd scratch Gripen (any variant), Rafale (any variant), Super Hornet and Eurofighter off the list because they've never completed comparable numbers.