F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[MilEME09]

The F-35A hook is meant for emergencies, not continued use.

Could we ask for the structural reinforcement and hook of the C model for such situations though?

 

[SupersonicMax]

The load of hook usage is distributed throughout the whole airframe.  The C model is beefed up for that reason.  It’s not just the hook, it’s the whole structure.  Much easier to put a drag chute (which imparts a lot less loads than a hook.

 

[Quirky]

The load of hook usage is distributed throughout the whole airframe.  The C model is beefed up for that reason.  It’s not just the hook, it’s the whole structure.  Much easier to put a drag chute (which imparts a lot less loads than a hook.

That also adds more maintenance repacking and inspecting a piece of fabric. We could just buy the C model, it’ll give us the extra internal fuel capacity, tail hook and wing fold. Plus aesthetically, the wing span makes it look beefier.

 

[PuckChaser]

That also adds more maintenance repacking and inspecting a piece of fabric. We could just buy the C model, it’ll give us the extra internal fuel capacity, tail hook and wing fold. Plus aesthetically, the wing span makes it look beefier.

$20M USD to get 1NM of combat radius on internal fuel and the ability to not have to maintain a parachute... Doesn't sound like a great deal at all.

 

[Quirky]

$20M USD to get 1NM of combat radius on internal fuel and the ability to not have to maintain a parachute... Doesn't sound like a great deal at all.

Canada bought a fighter designed to land on aircraft carriers we don’t have, with a complex landing gear system that wastes hundreds of man-hours to maintain, not to mention the hundreds of millions of dollars it costs us to upgrade. If the Gripen shows up in Canadian colours I wouldn’t be surprised at this point.

 

[PuckChaser]

Canada bought a fighter designed to land on aircraft carriers we don’t have, with a complex landing gear system that wastes hundreds of man-hours to maintain, not to mention the hundreds of millions of dollars it costs us to upgrade.

So you're saying we should make the same mistake twice, or buy an inferior aircraft just because there's some teething problems with a drag chute that's stated to be repaired before the end of the year?

 

[tomahawk6]

The drag chute has been tested been by
the USAF and others. Eventually it will get sorted out. ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceNjDY7eM_0

Norway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtxIhjKczz4

 

[MarkOttawa]

Alaskan F-35As not for NORAD at this time--that remains with Elmendorf's F-22s (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/21/us-warplanes-intercept-russia-bombers-alaska-coast/):

Eielson reactivates fighter squadron ahead of F-35′s arrival

In preparation for the arrival of the first of its F-35s next spring, Eielson Air Force Base has reactivated the 356th Fighter Squadron and named its new commander.

Lt. Col. James Christensen will lead the 356th, the first of two combat fighter squadrons coming to the base, according to an Oct. 10 news release. The first of 54 F-35 Lightning IIs is scheduled to arrive in April 2020, with the rest following over two years. A number of personnel dedicated to the F-35s have already arrived.

“The 356th FS is reactivating to bring F-35As out to the Pacific Theater [emphasis added],” Christensen said in the news release. “Looking back at the squadron history, the 356th Tactical Fighter Squadron was previously stationed in the Pacific for both the Vietnam conflict and to defend Korea and Japan out of Kunsan Air Base and Misawa Air Base, respectively. We are excited to bring the squadron back to the INDOPACOM theater.

For a number of years, the 354th Fighter Wing’s primary mission has been to train combat aviators, notably through Red Flag-Alaska. That training includes joint offensive counter-air, interdiction, close-air support and large force employment training in a simulated combat environment. So, the reactivation of the 356th FS represents a milestone as wing air assets return to operational combat status, according to the news release.

“The 354th FW has done an amazing job preparing for the arrival of the F-35,” Christenson said. “The transition to a combat force-provider mindset is what we will all get to learn together.”..
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/10/12/eielson-reactivates-fighter-squadron-ahead-of-f-35s-arrival/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[tomahawk6]

Eilson AFB brings back many a memory. I have made at least one parachute jump from there to jump onto the frozen Yukon River at a place called Galena Air Force station and now I think its shuttered. Also we sat out some winter and summer exercises in barracks at the base and enjoyed USAF dining. In the winter the place was near - 40 thick with ice fog. Give me Anchorage any day. ;D

 

[Good2Golf]

Alaskan F-35As not for NORAD at this time--that remains with Elmendorf's F-22s (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/21/us-warplanes-intercept-russia-bombers-alaska-coast/):

Mark
Ottawa

This isn’t anything against the F-35, but part of the F-22’s job is what it does in NORAD-ANR.

The F-22 / F-35 pairing is essentially the 5th Gen pairing version of the F-15 / F-16 pairing...air supremacy and multirole.

Regards
G2G

 

[Cloud Cover]

they have 54 fighters in a squadron?

 

[tomahawk6]

a wing. 18 to 24 a squadron.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Slowly, slowly but may be speeding up pretty fast soon--and as we almost aimlessly dither price keeps coming down:

F-35 Program Facing Delays in Full-Rate Production, As DoD Struggles to Integrate Into Simulators

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter is performing well in the real world, but challenges incorporating it into a Defense Department simulation system will delay DoD from being able to move into full-rate production, the Pentagon’s top weapons-buyer told reporters today.

Ellen Lord, undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, said in a media briefing that the services are doing well in operating and sustaining the aircraft. But, she said, a decision to declare Milestone C and move into full-rate production – which would allow DoD to consider awarding multi-year procurement contracts and further cut cost from the program – could be delayed by as much as 13 months.

“We actually just have signed out of the [Joint Program Office] earlier this week a program deviation report that documented expected schedule threshold breach in the Milestone C full-rate production decision milestone of up to 13 months. So what this is the result of – and I follow this very carefully – is the fact that we are not making as quick progress on the Joint Simulation Environment integrating the F-35 into it,” she said.
“It is a critical portion of [Initial Operational Test and Evaluation]. We work closely with Dr. (Robert) Behler at [Director of Operational Test and Evaluation]: they’re making excellent progress out on the range with the F-35, but we need to do the work in the Joint Simulation Environment. We have collectively decided that we need to get the JSE absolutely correct before we proceed, so I’m going to make some decisions about when that full-rate production decision will be made shortly.”

The 13-month delay would push the Milestone C decision from this December to as late as January 2021.

“That being said, we’re moving forward with the program: the aircraft are performing exceptionally well, and we’re very excited about the progress. So it does not change what we’re doing on the production line, what we’re doing in terms of development or sustainment,” Lord said...

As for the procurement of new jets, Lord said “we’ve reached a handshake agreement with Lockheed Martin and continue to negotiate on the next F-35 lot buy for 478 aircraft. I won’t get into any specifics,” but she vowed to provide details of the negotiations once a contract was finalized. The Pentagon and the jet-builder reached this handshake agreement for Lots 12, 13 and 14 in June. The agreement covers three lots but would be written as a contract for Lot 12, with options for the next two lots. Once the Pentagon declares Milestone C and full-rate production, the department could look at multiyear contracts for Lots 15 and beyond – if DoD feels comfortable with the program – as a way to potentially trim more cost out of the program.
https://news.usni.org/2019/10/18/f-35-program-facing-delays-in-full-rate-production-as-dod-struggles-to-integrate-into-simulators

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

How many F 35 have been delivered?
The U.S. stated plan is to buy 2,663 F-35s, which will provide the bulk of the crewed tactical airpower of the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps in coming decades. Deliveries of the F-35 for the U.S.
...
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II.
F-35 Lightning II
Number built 435+ as of 3 October 2019

https://www.google.com/search?q=number+of+f35s+flying&oq=number+of+f35s+flying&aqs=chrome..69i57.6826j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

435 delivered
478 under negotiation for delivery over three years (assuming 1 lot per year)

913 delivered before Full Rate Production against a planned order of 2663 for the US alone.

 

[CBH99]

This might be a rare case where our dithering actually end up serving us well.

The unit cost comes down, the bugs get worked out, the software is updated/fixed/patched, new capabilities come online, and manufacturing issues are resolved.  (Not being able to go above Mach for more than X time period, due to it causing structural damage, etc)



By the time we place our order - if we do order the F-35 - it'll be a much better airplane than if we had ordered it 10 years ago, with a lot of the cost of the teething issues worked out by our allies/previous purchasers.  :2c:

 

[MarkOttawa]

CBH99: Fortune favours the frivolous :'(.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Underway]

- it'll be a much better airplane than if we had ordered it 10 years ago, with a lot of the cost of the teething issues worked out by our allies/previous purchasers.  :2c:

Yes if we had of gotten the EH101 in the 90's like originally planned then it would be out of date now...  good thing we flew the Sea Kings for so long to wait for an up to date aircraft 20 years later.  rly:

 

[Quirky]

This might be a rare case where our dithering actually end up serving us well.

The unit cost comes down, the bugs get worked out, the software is updated/fixed/patched, new capabilities come online, and manufacturing issues are resolved.  (Not being able to go above Mach for more than X time period, due to it causing structural damage, etc)



By the time we place our order - if we do order the F-35 - it'll be a much better airplane than if we had ordered it 10 years ago, with a lot of the cost of the teething issues worked out by our allies/previous purchasers.  :2c:

I thought about this too, however did we really save that much. Instead of ordering F35s and having them flying operational missions by now, maybe, or close to it, we bought used F18s that require massive upgrades. I would assume that when the F35 order went in, updates for our current fleet would stop. I don’t think the cost savings of a few million per plane would be more than the situation we are in now. Would rather see the F35s flying in Canadian colours now instead of clapped out Aussie hornets bought on a political promise that the RCAF didn’t want.

 

[CBH99]

Yes if we had of gotten the EH101 in the 90's like originally planned then it would be out of date now...  good thing we flew the Sea Kings for so long to wait for an up to date aircraft 20 years later.  rly:

Fair point.  Very fair point indeed.

Not sure if the two platforms can be compared directly apples to apples in that sense, but I do totally get what your saying.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Cost of F-35A keeps trending down:

In newly inked deal, F-35 price falls to $78 million a copy

The Pentagon and Lockheed Martin have finalized a $34 billion deal for the next three lots of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, setting the price of an F-35A jet below $80 million.

The fresh price tag has come a year earlier than expected. The deal includes 478 F-35s for U.S. and international customers across lots 12, 13 and 14.

On average, the price per aircraft will fall about 12.8 percent across all variants from Lot 11 to Lot 14, according to the Pentagon.



“This is the first time the F-35 Joint Program Office will award a significant F-35 aircraft procurement in the same fiscal year as the congressional appropriation year,” Pentagon acquisition head Ellen Lord told reporters Tuesday.

“We will reach a unit-recurring flyaway-cost-per-aircraft target of $80 million for a U.S. Air Force F-35A price by Lot 13, which is one lot earlier than planned — a significant milestone for the department,” she added.

The F-35A conventional-takeoff-and-landing model — which is used by the U.S. Air Force and most international users — is set to decrease from a Lot 11 price of $89.2 million to $82.4 million in Lot 12; $79.2 million in Lot 13; and $77.9 million in Lot 14 [emphasis added].



The F-35B short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing model will fall to $108 million in Lot 12, $104.8 million in Lot 13 and $101.3 million in Lot 14. The F-35C variant, which can take off and land on aircraft carriers, also decreased in price, dropping to $103.1 million in Lot 12, $98.1 million in Lot 13 and $94.4 million in Lot 14.

Lockheed will deliver 149 F-35s in Lot 12, 160 aircraft in Lot 13 and 169 for Lot 14 [emphasis added].

Neither Lord nor Lt. Gen. Eric Fick, the Pentagon’s F-35 program executive, could explain why the size of the Lot 12 buy had dwindled from the 157 jets announced in June as part of the handshake deal to 149 jets in the definitized agreement.



However, it’s likely that the decrease is due to Turkey’s removal from the program. After the handshake agreement was announced, a source with knowledge of the deal told Defense News that it included Turkish jets to the order of about five to 10 F-35s per lot [emphasis added].

The Pentagon announced the contract definitization on Monday, awarding Lockheed Martin a $7 billion modification to a previous contract vehicle for the F-35. The Defense Department previously obligated funding to Lockheed through undefinitized contracts for about 255 aircraft, Fick said.

The award, which comprises some Lot 12 jets as well as Lot 13 planes added by Congress in the fiscal 2019 budget, includes 114 F-35s:

    48 F-35As for the U.S. Air Force
    20 F-35Bs for the U.S. Marine Corps
    Nine F-35Cs for the U.S. Navy
    12 F-35As for Norway
    15 F-35As for Australia
    Eight F-35As and two F-35Bs for Italy
    Funds for obsolescent parts, software data loads, critical safety items, nonrecurring and recurring engineering, and the Joint Strike Fighter Airborne Data Emulator.

“We are still left, then with about 100 aircraft to go and about another $7 billion to go associated with the work to be done for U.S. services in accordance with the [FY20 budget],” Fick said. “We don’t have that budget yet. We can’t make that contract award for the final aircraft until such time as we have this new statutory authority to do so.”..
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/10/29/in-newly-inked-deal-f-35-prices-fall-to-78-million-a-copy/

Mark
Ottawa